Even Microsoft realizes Vista doesn’t work for everyone
We have been as vocal as anyone in criticizing how well Vista runs mobile computers, OK, maybe we’ve been a bit more vocal than most. It’s a topic that provokes knee-jerk reactions from almost everyone, with a big contingent of readers who agree completely and another who don’t. The topic of Vista on mobile devices is going to heat up with C/NET and Engadget both reporting two interesting developments in this area. It seems it started with the news that Lenovo is offering customers who purchased PCs from them with Vista pre-installed the opportunity to downgrade to Windows XP. That’s right, no doubt bowing from complaints from customers who find that Vista is not cutting the mustard the ThinkPad manufacturer will sell customers a set of XP recovery disks so they can "downgrade" from Microsoft Vista to XP. This is very big news indeed and gets even bigger with the acknowledgment that Microsoft is allowing OEMs selling Vista computers to do the same.
That’s right, Microsoft, who is trying to phase XP out, is allowing OEMs to offer a similar downgrade to XP for their customers who are not happy with Vista running on their new PCs. This is incredible and demonstrates without any question that even Microsoft is getting so much pressure from OEMs with massive complaints about the new OS that they have to let people go back to XP. See, we were right all along here on jkOnTheRun and this just proves that Vista is not ready to run your mobile PCs. Maybe not even your desktop. Wow.
This may have been covered previously and I missed it, but is there any way for someone to turn Vista into “Vista Lite”? From my little experience playing with a Tablet running Vista, it appears that the handwriting recognition is significantly superior, even without the customizing features. I hear this is the general opinion. Is there any way to turn off some of the “bells and whistles” to make Vista run leaner/faster/smoother and maintain basic functionality, including the HWR?
Other than that, can you tell me here or give a reference to elsewhere on up to date ways on how you’ve maximized the HWR in XP?
Thanks.
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3945
Fujitsu looks to be doing this on the U810.
“(Note: Systems with Genuine Windows Vista® Business preinstalled will include Genuine Windows Vista® Business and Windows® XP recovery disc and utility.)”
There are guides all over on how to optimize vista by turning off visuals and services, just give it a google. However, there is only so far you can go – for example, you can’t do anything about the fact that vista is a 7-11 gig install opposed to the 2-2.5 gig install of XP – which is a nasty (and as far as I can tell, unneeded) hit on ultra portable devices with their 1.8″ or SSD storage devices. Background processes may still cause you performance problems even with the big hogs disabled.
Vista was clearly designed to run on powerful computers – in an age where it should have been designed to scale because the range of “PC” devices is exploding.
Vista is the single factor which has stopped me from purchasing new computers. I returned both a Sony T series and a Lenovo X61T simply because Vista is such a turd. I never experienced a 1/4 of the crashes on XP that I have for Vista. The last time I remember so many crashes was with Windows Me.
Please don’t tell me that I can turn off all the bells and whistles in Vista to make it run quicker – that thinking is both counter-intuitive (hey, here’s a phone that also can access the internet – but don’t try accessing it too much because the phone will crash) – and in my experience while Vista may run slightly quicker, it does not stop the crashing problems.
Vista just does not work well on mobile devices. I know that I am not alone in this thinking and I think that Vista is helping to cripple the mobile computing market.
I think it’s a great decision. I’m forced to run vista, and every day I feel like my computer is Harrison Burgeron.
The company I work for has had a need recently to provide customer support to users with Vista/Office 2007, but given the trouble with Vista, we opted to run it inside VMware instead of upgrading.
I decided with our system admin that we’ll never upgrade to Vista. Thankfully, Dell has continued to offer XP on all their business systems.
Let’s hope that all these Vista device drivers work on XP too. That would suck to downgrade and have hardware trouble.
to MD in Philly: First, try vlite.net. Basically its a tool with its help, my install is 3,7gb. You also can integrate drivers…etc. But you have to reinstall. I posted about this tool in the article where James was talking about his unability to work with vista. Vista is far from perfect and except of a few things its worthless to upgrade. (my opinion)
What CNet and Engadget failed to mention is that it is standard for Microsoft to do this with the business versions of Windows. We just bought an XP Pro license at work and received a Vista Business license. There is no distinction between the two. You can also use XP Pro licenses to install Windows 2000 if you like. This is just to give businesses the flexibility they need to buy PCs without being stuck with a version of Windows that they haven’t tested yet.
It’s a shame to see JK get caught up in such senseless Vista bashing.
Oh, I should have mentioned that this isn’t available to Home users.
Downgrading option has been there from the day one: http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/2/3/d23b9533-169d-4996-b198-7b9d3fe15611/downgrade_chart.doc
Can I downgrade my OEM version of Windows Vista Business to Windows XP Professional?
Yes. OEM downgrade rights for desktop PC operating systems apply to Windows Vista Business and Windows Vista Ultimate as stated in the License Terms. Please note, OEM downgrade versions of Windows Vista Business and Windows Vista Ultimate are limited to Windows XP Professional (including Windows XP Tablet PC Edition and Windows XP x64 Edition).
JK, the drivers are the reason I didn’t downgraded to XP when I got my new laptop. I was all set to do so after having read all of the horror stories about Vista, but Gateway doesn’t provide any XP drivers for my laptop model and I haven’t found any other sources of acceptable substitute drivers. It never occurred to me to try it with the Vista drivers, but I would sure hate to go through all the trouble of downgrading to XP only to find that the Vista drivers don’t “downgrade.”
I ended up sticking with Vista and, with the exception of one persistent issue that sometimes results in a BSOD when I shut down, I haven’t had any significant difficulties. However, I use my laptop mostly as a desktop replacement and I’m almost always running it plugged in (and set for Performance) rather than using the battery.
Jake, this is not senseless Vista bashing. The problems with Vista on mobile devices are extremely well documented and not just on this site. Vista does not work out of the box on mobile devices, and even with extreme hacking it’s not a stable platform for mobile devices.
Hi JK. I can appreciate that some people are having problems with Vista on mobile devices but that’s not the main point of this post. The sites that are running this story (yours included) are suggesting that this downgrade policy is an admission of defeat on Microsoft’s part. JKK and I have pointed out that this couldn’t be further from the truth and that it is standard Microsoft policy to offer a downgrade to business customers. As the post ignores the facts and forms an untenable link between the downgrade offer and problems on mobile devices it does come across as senseless Vista bashing.
In my opinion, this quote sums up the point you are trying to make: “[No] doubt bowing from complaints from customers who find that Vista is not cutting the mustard the ThinkPad manufacturer will sell customers a set of XP recovery disks so they can “downgrade” from Microsoft Vista to XP”. Of course, if you accept what JKK and I have said then you can see that this has nothing to do with whether or not Vista cuts the mustard. You also go on to say that you think that th downgrade option “is incredible and demonstrates without any question that even Microsoft is getting so much pressure from OEMs with massive complaints about the new OS that they have to let people go back to XP” but this is clearly wrong as well.
I don’t mean to attack you personally but I just wish that people (and I’m mostly thinking of Engadget and CNet here) would check the facts before posting FUD. I guess I just expect a bit more from you and Kevin.
Jake, while a lot of what you say is accurate this summer Microsoft made a big change in that policy. Per CNET:
“Under Microsoft’s licensing terms for Vista, buyers of Vista Business and Vista Ultimate Edition have always had the right to downgrade to XP, but in practice this could be challenging. In June, Microsoft changed its practices to allow computer makers that sell pre-activated Vista machines to order Windows XP discs that could be included inside the box with PCs, or shipped to customers without requiring additional activation.”
This is a big change in the way that this was handled before and has nothing to do with the enterprise market.
Hi James, I don’t want this to seem like a fight but I think that just confirms what I’ve been saying. Although I can see the point you’re trying to make I see things a little differently: rather than an admission of “guilt”, I just see this as Microsoft simplifying a process that had always been in place. We’ve seen Microsoft simplifying other aspects of their license with Vista so why should this be any different.
Also, I agree that this isn’t exclusively for the enterprise market but it is designed with business users in mind which is why it has only ever been available for users of the business/professional versions of Windows and excludes the home versions. In practice this may mean that some home users inadvertently benefit but I don’t think Microsoft really had them in mind.
Engadget and CNet have both become Apple shills and have taken to bashing Vista and Microsoft whenever they think they can. While Engadget is happy to do this on their front page posts, CNet have taken to doing it in their “blogs” which they use whenever they want to write any old unsubstantiated nonsense that pops into their heads, free of any journalistic or ethical constraints. The fact that this story has done the rounds this weekend in the form it has just proves that in my opinion.
I agree that Microsoft should be doing more to help mobile PC users that are having trouble with Vista. I also think the OEMs and the hardware vendors have a big part to play in all this. But I think you would agree that offering XP as a solution is no solution and I doubt that this is what Microsoft are really trying to do. Hopefully we will see more improvements to Vista over the next few months culminating in SP1 and targeting some of the concerns that you have raised.
If you truly think Engadget is an Apple shill you need to read it some more. They get their share of bashing too. Apple gets a lot of press because they generate a tremendous amount of hype. That is their intention and it works. The dirtier side of Apple doesn’t affect or concern most of its customers, so no, it doesn’t get a massive amount of flak.
Vista gets a lot of bashing because it has a lot of problems. It is a poorly designed operating system, and most of the individuals who truly understand OS structure and administration have realized this by now. These problems affect a massive proportion of the PC userbase, so they get a lot of attention, and rightfully so. I work for a large university, and the current statement from the lead admins is simply that Vista is not ready for use. They have resorted to posting a FAQ explaining all of the reasons they simply can not support vista until some major problems are resolved. Compare that to OSX and Linux which are still small in rollout, but are finding new niches to slip into.
As an avid Windows, OSX, and *nix user and admin, I find all of them annoying, and all of them have their share of shady tactics and insane choices. My experience with Vista strikes me as one of the biggest failures in recent OS history, and is a direct result of the obfuscated development structure Microsoft has buried itself in over the past 15 years (nothing compares to ME though
). It’s intent was a more viable, flexible, and secure rebuild of the NT kernel structure, and by the time vista came to market, all of the potential was expended and the result was an underwhelming piece of bloatware compared to its predecessors. Even if you like Vista, it was a failure in this regard.
In Vista’s case, some folks think of it as “upgrading” to XP.
http://abandonshack.com/?page_id=53
I have a brand new Vista tablet computer with very little non-Microsoft software on there. Apart from Evernote, MindManager, Ad-Aware, Spybot, PDF Annotator and Firefox, I only have Office 2007.
Despite this, I get about one blue screen crash every two days. I also have a Mac which when it (very rarely) crashes a program never totally crashes the whole computer.
It is so frustrating to set yourself up for the day with all the e-mails that you need to answer and all the web pages that you need to read and then have the whole dam thing Vista crash.
How is it that such a wealthy company with such huge resources can stuff up this big with an operating system? It’s a joke that has wasted huge hours of my time.
If I didn’t have to use Windows for work I would go to Mac full time. If Jobs had any sense he would give out a free low spec version of OS 10 with Parallels to disgruntled Vista users. The switch to the Mac platform would be huge…
I’m a huge windows tablet fan but this OS has gone beyond a joke.