Verizon Blackberry 8830 GPS update
I now have updated my Verizon Blackberry 8830 with the update that hopefully enables the GPS that Verizon so thoughtfully disabled originally and can offer some first-hand information about the update. FIrst off, the update procedure, one normally rock solid with Blackberries, hung up toward the end and I had to remove the battery from the 8830 to recover. Once I did that and reconnected to the Blackberry Desktop Manager my 8830 was restored with all of my data and the device reactivated with the Blackberry network. The total process ended up taking over an hour but my 8830 at was functionally the same as before the update. I had some scary moments in there where I thought my 8830 had been bricked but thankfully the battery removal did the trick.
Once the 8830 was updated the first thing I noted in the Settings menu was that GPS now shows "Device GPS" under the GPS Data Source option where before it didn’t. This leads me to believe that the GPS is at least enabled under the basic OS level which is cool. Unfortunately, I haven’t found a way to use it yet. Blackberry Maps, the program that RIM preinstalled as part of the OS will still not use the GPS, which is a big shame. It is obviously still disabled by Verizon which is absolutely friggin’ horrible. The GPS Settings under BB Maps still shows "None" as the only option under GPS Source. Bad, bad Verizon! Google Maps on the other hand seems to be trying to use the GPS as it shows "Updating location" when it starts. I haven’t had time to wait long enough for it to get that first satellite lock but I think it’s trying to which could be a good thing. I’ll keep trying to verify if Google Maps does in fact use the GPS under this new OS update and report back.
I suspect that the update is designed to let the GPS work with Verizon’s VZ Navigator service for $10 a month and a few minutes ago I activated that service on my account which is required to test it. I then downloaded the VZ Navigator application to the 8830 OTA and when I try to run it it starts and then quits rapidly. I suspect it’s because it will take Verizon a while to actually activate the service on my account and that the app is checking for service up front and that’s why it quits immediately. I’ll give them some time today and then test it again and report back. It would be very odd if their own service won’t use the GPS, it’s obviously the main reason Verizon has enabled the GPS.
If I am going to have to pay for an additional service to use the GPS in the 8830 I would much rather use TeleNav, a service I use on Windows Mobile. TeleNav is an excellent navigation solution and it would rock on the 8830. Unfortunately a visit to the TeleNav web site still says that you need an external GPS receiver to use their service with the 8830 which may not be accurate with this update. I went ahead and ordered the service from TeleNav since there’s a free 30 day trial and downloaded the application OTA to the 8830. It installed and no go, the TeleNav app tells me it needs a Bluetooth GPS receiver. I went into the TeleNav Settings and lo and behold I can select "internal GPS" which I’ve done but haven’t been able to get a satellite lock yet. I’ll keep trying and report back.
Ok Verizon, this totally sucks. You personally told me that 3rd part apps would work with the GPS and other than Google Maps which I can’t get to work yet NONE OF THE MAJOR 3RD PARTY APPS WORK WITH THE GPS. It may be time to switch carriers, and I’ve been with Verizon for years and years. Your decision makers just don’t get it.
I am really hoping that Verizon just hasn’t had time to get everything working since the update is so new but somehow given their track record I just don’t think so. Caveat emptor.
I strongly suggest you stay with Verizon, they have the best service around Houston, I live in the Conroe/Woodlands area and made a huge mistake to switch to AT&T when the iPhone came out, I had sooooo many drop calls it was ridiculous, well 4 months later I am back to Verizon and expecting to get my Voyager today
James, I’m impressed! Your energy level was so high in that posting that I immediately needed to find and consume a sugar coated doughnut with sprinkles!
I’ve been promising a navigationally challenged friend of mine that they’d be able to use their 8830 for GPS so all I can say is go get ‘em!
It’s amazing what you can get away with when you have what is probably the best coverage in the nation, or at least that’s what the perception is. They can cripple their phones and have highly limiting data plan restrictions, but people won’t switch out of fear of bad coverage. At least some class-action lawsuits have gotten them out of their worst habits.
I have an 8800 and the GPS works great. It has it’s own little GPS app and while it doesn’t talk and tell me where to turn, there are apps that will do that. It also has bluetooth and the bummer of it is that you can’t use the phone as a GPS device for something else. That is, I can’t connect the 8800 to the Mogul as a GPS. The kicker is I got the 8800 from Vodafone. That’s the only way to get a decent phone with a built-in working GPS in this country because all cell providers here suck. All of them in at least one way or another. T-Mobile’s data is so slow I could call and speak the zeros and ones faster than the phone could send it. Cingular is a combination of two ancient Incan words “Cin” meaning “bill” and “ular” meaning “rape”. Sprint’s EVDO is pretty awesome but I think it’s now confirmed that their entire management system is occupied by monkeys who couldn’t make a decent decision if their lives depended on it. Because it does and they still can’t.
So there ya go…find a provider with high speed data, at least. Then import and decent phone and you’ll be set.
Actually, I take back one line of the above, it’s not the only way to get a decent phone with a working GPS in this country. What I meant was it’s the only way to get a decent phone in this country, period.
Come to AT&T, the 8925, the new Motorola Q9 Global, and the new BlackJack II all have built in GPS that can be used with any 3rd party software such as TomTom
And another thing….I’m tired of hearing how cell companies only sell crap because Americans want something cheap. That’s bull. Yeah, that Walmart still makes money speaks volumes about how America has abandoned quality, but a quick glance at any phone site will show that there are LOTS who value quality over cheap, lead lined Chinese trash. I was reading about a Nokia that looks really, really, sweet and comes with all this stuff, including ringtones by Brian Eno. I never gave a damn about ringtones before but I’m a huge Eno fan and it really irked me that, like every other decent phone ever made, the only way I’d ever get my hands on one would be to import it, at undoubtedly great expense, from the UK. What a crock! Not that I’d want one, I’m a PDA kind of guy, but that I can’t get it because, here, it’s the lowest common denominator uber alles really ticks me off. I’d expect Sprint and Cingular to have their heads that far up their asses but T-Mobile, a German company? They should know better.
James,
I had the same problem with VZ Navigator starting and then quitting quickly. The following fix (from blackberryforums.com) cleared up that problem for me:
Go to Options>>Advanced Options>>Applications>>VZ Navigator, click your Menu Key and edit the permissions for the app, changing “Connections” to “Allow” and “Interactions” to “Allow.” That should do it.
Although Verizon are not part of the Open Handset Alliance, its this sort of behaviour from the network operators that worries me when it comes to the upcoming Android release.
I posted about it just yesterday:
http://www.guyontechnology.co.uk/2007/11/20/concerns-with-android-and-the-open-handset-alliance/
(hope you don’t mind links James / Kevin)
Hi. I went through this install last night and ran into some problems. Here’s what you’ll have to do to get the application to stop quitting shortly after opening it. Go to the permisions option through the Options/Advanced Options/blah…. menu. Set all of the permissions for the VZ Navigator application to Allow. After doing this you should be able to use the application. When you use the application and try to get it to find your current location using the GPS you should receive a message stating that your GPS has not been provisioned. Here is where you will have to call Verizon to add the VZ Navigator service to your account and provision your GPS> This may take some time with Verizon as the person I spoke to didn’t even realize they had enabled the GPS on this phone. I had to spend 30 minutes convincing her that they had
Once provisioned it was able to find my location using the GPS.
Gary,
Thanks, I changed the permissions in VZ Navigator and it now works. I just need to get it provisioned as you mentioned. I’ll see how well it works. Unfortunately, BB Maps, Google Maps, MS Live and TeleNav still do not work.
I installed VZ Navigator on my 8830 as soon as it hit the Verizon website a couple of days back. Of course, it didn’t work. Originally, tech support told me the service was down.
My VZ Nav still wouldn’t work this morning, so I spent more time with tech support and they told me they received an email late yesterday afternoon (11-20-07) stating that the new software for VZ Navigator for the 8830 was flawed and would not function. They apologized and gave me a month’s free Nav service and a credit for my trouble. They said they would notify me whan a fix came out.
However, I don’t give up that easy, so I began experimenting and found the solution. My VZ Navigator is up and running fine!
I am guessing this process may be mandatory on the 8830 where it is running with Blackberry Enterprise Server.
The guys at Verizon owe me! I’d say a month’s free service would do it, eh??
——————————————————————————–
After installation of the most current Blackberry device software (important) and the latest version of VZ Navigator for the 8830 (from VZW website),
On the Blackberry device itself, go to Main Menu , Options, Advanced Options, Applications using the Blackberry Menu key
Once in Applications, wait for application list to build, then scroll to VZ Navigator in Applications list.
Use Menu key and select Edit Permissions.
Scroll over Connections , hit menu key, select Expand, then adjust settings as follows:
· Phone to Allow
· Location (GPS) to Allow
· Company Network to Allow
· Carrier Internet to Allow
Scroll over Interactions , hit menu key, select Expand, then adjust settings as follows:
· Interprocess Communication to Allow (cannot access address book when set to Deny)
· Device Settings Modification to Allow
· Media Access to Allow (no audio during navigation when set to Deny)
· Module Management to Allow
· Keystroke Injection to Allow (cannot stop screen from blanking when set to Deny)
· Security Timer Reset to Allow (cannot stop password protect mode when set to Deny)
Scroll over User Data , hit menu key, select Expand, then adjust settings as follows:
· PIM to Allow (cannot have access issues with address book when set to Deny)
· Files to Allow (cannot save data to the device when set to Deny)
Hit back key and save all changes, then exit menus. VZ Navigator will work fine!!
Hello jk. Stephen here, out of Missouri.
I have spent the last four days working with VZW Data Tech Support staff, working to eliminate working problems with both VZ Navigator and the internal gps chipset on the BlackBerry 8830.
Here is what has occurred: My first call entailed a very long talk over one hour (from a payphone, thank goodness!) from a helpful gal working in VZW’s data tech support dept.
I had recently–and finally!–been able to get VZ Navigator up and working, but had some problems with the ‘Where Am I’ feature in VZ Nav’s ‘Maps’ dialog, the main problem being that VZ Nav wouldn’t display my position accurately, most of the time.
I know the 8830 isn’t sporting SiRF Star III technology here, but you’d think any decent internal GPS chip capable of autonomous functionality would at least be able to download a GPS almanac, store it, and then be able to queue up satellite locations each time the program gets turned off, then back on again–this done for testing.
Well, the entire process is reminiscent of my experience with Navizon (www.navizon.com), although slightly less cumbersome–I didn’t have to get on a website, manually enter locations of cell towers near me, then be able to use the software to accurately display my location.
What I did went like this: I’d select the ‘Where Am I’ feature from under the ‘Maps’ icon on VZ Nav’s main page, then wait for it to get a GPS lock. I did this over twenty (20) times, and it was dead-on accurate about four of those times. (I experienced similar results with Navizon, only slightly worse.)
Additionally, I hit the escape key to go back to the page that the ‘Where Am I’ feature is located, then selected it again, just to see if the same location would come up, but I was severely disappointed. More often than dead-on accuracy, what happened is that my location would be five to ten miles outside of my actual, dead-on accurate location.
I don’t know if this is because VZ Navigator is making only one brief function call to the internal GPS chip (I had observed something to this effect on another website regarding the sequence VZ Navigator uses when determining a location, but have forgotten where the information was obtained at this point), getting a quick GPS fix from the autonomous function, then using tower triangulation to determine the remainder of the location fix, or not.
Quite frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if VZ Navigator is using the internal chip much at all; quite less than more, I’d say. Either that or the MS6550 (gpsONE)–or whatever the numbers are–can’t hold a candle to a SiRF Star III, MTK, or Ublox implementation. (RANT) Blast it! I’d wish the CDMA carriers would stick to what has already been proven to work! (/RANT)
Getting back to the phone call with data tech support: I was informed–again, after a very long session detailing my experiences over the last seven (7) months of being with VZW–that VZ Navigator is designed to send location information (probably that dreaded encrypted location data scheme VZW just has to have) over their own towers, and that VZ Navigator does work in Extended Service Areas.
I was then informed that if I changed my plan slightly, I could have this functionality with VZ Navigator. So I did! I switched my plan around to a Nationwide plan that, at length, didn’t remove any features, and cost less than five (5) dollars difference in my monthly bill.
[NOTE: I was put on hold at the very end of our most polite conversation, while the tech spoke with a supervisor. I was, at this point, highly speculative about any type of 'solution' that did not include the re-coding of my firmware and activation of my gps chip to RIM's original functionality. I was adamant that this matter would probably be tended to by the user community at large--and at length, anyway--and I did not feel it fair to me as an end user to have to put up with what other CDMA carier's users were enjoying whilst I was not.
Well, what I was told shocked me! Basically, I was given the 'thumbs up' to go ahead and--the supervisor used the word "hack" in her reply to the tech, who repeated it to me--do whatever I desired to restore gps functionality, but was warned that the warranty would be void if I did.
I was a bit put out by that, so I informed the tech about this being my professional phone, something I also use to assist me in remembering things (pertinent to me, as I have clinically diagnosed Attention Deficit Disorder and use my BB 8830 as a disability aid), as well as my general recreational phone, as well.]
So after assuring me that my new phone plan was immediately available (apparently changes to VZW’s bills and features are preferred to be started on the next billing cycle, but the tech made an exception due to my having problems, much to her own credit), I did a ‘*228, Option 1′ to program the phone.
After this, I got off the phone with the tech, as it was late, and went home and worked with VZ Navigator again. Same issues. I worked a bit with VZ Nav again the following day, and subsequent evening. Same issues. It seems that VZ Navigator resets the location every time ‘Where Am I’ is selected, and doesn’t store anything.
So I go back to my local payphone up the road again, and kick back in my car at 10:25pm with yet another data support tech. Well, this is where I have to start being a bit more serious, due to the fact that I was told incorrect information. You see, the second tech informs me that even with the plan change, VZ Navigator still wouldn’t work in an Extended Service Area, as VZ Nav needed Verizon’s towers to work accurately.
So this is what VZ Navigator truly is: A Verizon Wireless Dependendent application that will only work on their own towers, and not roaming partner’s extended service towers.
I asked for, and was able to speak with a supervisor at this point. I explained my situtation, and I received the usual VZW polite apology for the mishap. (This is nice, their CSR’s are well-trained, articulate, and do work well with the public. However, I think VZW would do well to be more uniform in their teaching methods and information accuracy. Oh yes, they should patently *stop crippling native features in their phones!* I can’t say this loudly enough!)
I was, at this point, beyond wanting to do anything except receive what I believe to be fair and practical compensation for all the hullabaloo and runaround I had experienced for that last seven months. The supervisor was patient while I articulated the matter as I saw it. She was amiable, but not very committal.
She apologized again for the problem with the service, and offered to waive half of the early termination fee. After gasping internally
, I informed her that not only was this not appropriate, but that I needed something more substantial, something like them paying my past due bill to AT&T, buying me a new 8310 Curve in Crimson (Red), and paying for my bill for two years. (This last part, although said in 1/2 jest–I want to go back to AT&T but can’t afford to at the present time–was also 1/2 serious.)
I stated I needed, at the very least, a full refund of the store retail price of the phone due to my low income status at this time, something about 550 or so. This, to allow me to obtain service at another carrier. We chatted a little more, and I finally just stated that I knew that she, even though a supervisor, could not really, in reality, make that kind of decision, and politely suggested that I needed to speak with her superior.
I am now awaiting a call from a one ‘Travis,’ who will, hopefully, contact me by Tuesday, next week. If and when that call comes, I’ll get back on here and post.
I just want off the VZW bandwagon at this point, want my 8310 in Red, and desire to go badk to AT&T. I hope VZW will pay an $1800 bill. If not, I guess it’s off to court. *Sigh*
>>
The following paragraph should actually read:
(Corrections in CAPITALS)
“Getting back to the phone call with data tech support: I was informed–again, after a very long session detailing my experiences over the last seven (7) months of being with VZW–that VZ Navigator is designed to send location information (probably that dreaded encrypted location data scheme VZW just has to have) doesover their own towers, and that VZ Navigator DOES NOT work in Extended Service Areas.” (originally said DOES)
Sorry for the error.
Umm…why does my original post by STEPHEN show it being posted by “Phil?” I’m not Phil, I’m Stephen.
Just saw that and thought I’d inquire
.
–Stephen, out of Missouri
Hmmm. Not only is it the wrong name–Phil–It’s also the wrong date–day before Thanksgiving, Nov. 21st.
Methinks Straaaaaaaange date and name transformations are afoot at jkOnTheRun
*subtle and mysterious snicker*
–Stephen, out of Missouri
IF the VZ navigator service only works on verizon towers, it’s not using the GPS. It’s using the Towers locations, received signal levels, and propagation delays to triangulate/trilaterate your position. Just like it does on phones that don’t have a GPS receiver in them.
I might be jumping to conclusions, but…
Thanks for nothing Verizon
TeleNav worked for a few days for me until I updated the firmware. Oh well…
But I don’t understand why anyone is willing to pay for VZNav in order to access a service that’s already free. Cancel your subscriptions and send Verizon a message; as long as people are giving them revenue for this bogus ploy, they’re never going to even consider unlocking GPS functionality.
Released Novemember 28th, Google Maps 2.0’s My Location can figure out where you are within ~3,200 ft. Nowhere near as precise as GPSr, but totally acceptable when you need to find where you are in a distant city and you have no clue whatsoever.
Indeed, Google Maps can tell you your location within an accuracy of up to ~1700 meters without gps. When you need precise directions find a street address and punch it in.
It also shows traffic information which I found to be very useful.
Paying Verizon $10/mo to use vznavigator is absurd and I strongly suggest no one ever do it.
What we need more of here are directions to unlawfully (ha!) unlock gps on the BB devices.
As of today, 02-02-08, Verizon Wireless has NO Intention of unlocking GPS capabiolities because that would hurt their flow of $10 per month for VZ Navigator.
Rather than wait around, I bought a Freedom bluetooth GPS keyring receiver from Ebay for $71 and downloaded the FREE GPS program for my BB 8830 at the following address http://www.nav4all.com/site2/www.nav4all.com/eng/index.php
I have not tried it yet as the puck has not arrived but (received good reviews from tech sites) will post back when it arrives.
I have also been told that BB Maps will work when the puck is paired with my phone. We’ll see. VZW has the best coverage I have ever had but they are GREEDY!