JK- First impressions of the Celio Redfly
Well, I’ve been playing with working with the Celio Redfly smartphone companion for just a few hours but I’m already getting beaten up to give my first impressions of the unique device so here goes. This will not be a full review and will only touch upon the things I have tried with the Redfly and what I think about those. There will be additional coverage coming from both Kevin and I so take this as a very quick and dirty overview of the Redfly.
First up, what is the Redfly? It is a small (almost the exact size of the EEE PC) laptop form device that does only one thing- it connects to a Windows Mobile smartphone or Pocket PC and extends the display and the keyboard of the phone. That’s all it does and it does it very well. There is no processor onboard, no memory, no computer of any kind. It uses the phone as the processor and simply gives you better input/ output capability for the Windows Mobile phone. There is a short list of currently certified WM phones that will work with the Redfly but Celio is working on adding to that list. The folks at Celio supplied an AT&T Tilt to use with the Redfly evaluation but I will not discuss the phone at all at this point. Read on for my impressions of the Redfly.
The Redfly has an 8 inch screen that extends the phone’s display to 800×480. It’s not just zooming it up, no it is increasing the WM resolution to 800×480 and doing so very well. You connect the Redfly to the phone by USB (mini) or by Bluetooth once it’s been configured to do so and it can be paired wtih more than one phone (but only used with one at a time) since it’s just extending the display. I have connected it to the Tilt and also to the HTC Advantage with no problems. The connection is a one button operation via Bluetooth and runs just as fast as it does via USB which is impressive. Note that if you connect via USB then the Redfly charges the phone. Pretty handy for travelers.
Once the Redfly is connected to the phone the phone’s display goes blank and the Redfly display goes active and it’s very cool to see what is in essence a giant Windows Mobile Today screen. Since the Redfly is simply displaying the phone’s output there are no compatibility issues, anything that runs on the phone is displayed just fine on the Redfly. I find no lag in the display or the keyboard, it is as fast as the phone it is connected to.
The keyboard is the same size as the EEE PC keyboard and I have no trouble touch typing on it. It couldn’t be smaller and work but it’s the perfect size to capitalize on portability and still be functional. The top row of keys are Function keys that are also preassigned to perform a lot of the Windows Mobile functions like go to the Today screen, fire up Email, hit the browser, etc. It is all very well thought-out and functions intuitively with the phone. There is also a small trackpad with two mouse buttons and it is cool to use with the Windows Mobile interface. It works pretty well and takes up little room so it’s a good addition to the keyboard. Of course, since there are two USB ports you can hook up a mouse if you don’t like trackpads, something I haven’t done yet but will try later. The USB ports also let you hook up flash drives and bring files into the phone with ease which is very, very cool. No fumbling with the mini-SD cards and the like, just plug in a USB key drive and get busy. There is also a VGA port for using with projectors so presentations can be done with Mobile PowerPoint.
Using the Redfly couldn’t be easier nor more intuitive. You turn on the power, connect the USB cable to both the Redfly and the phone and you’re connected. Or just turn on the Redfly, hit the Bluetooth button on the keyboard (F12) and select the phone from the valid paired list. You go from off to on in about 2 seconds which is very cool. You instantly see the Today screen on the Redfly that is now a biiiggg Today screen. You can interact with the interface via the touchpad or via an external mouse or by keys like a smartphone. Whatever works best but I usually find the touchpad to be the best way to work with it.
I configured my Exchange Server and one POP email account on the Tilt and I’ve been using the Redfly for my main email machine since I’ve had it. I have to tell you it’s a joy to work with email using the screen and keyboard and it’s worked well for me. I have received via email several Word docs, a spreadsheet and several PDFs and they open and display well on the Redfly. This could easily be a good travel device for professionals who live in email. You can also send text messages, remember the phone is the core device here. The Redfly email experience really shines with the push email and the Exchange Server. Compare it to using a real PC in the field. I take out the PC, connect to 3G with my modem, tell Outlook to go get my email. I wait for it to download and then process my email. With the Redfly, since it’s using the WM phone, I turn on the Redfly and connect in a couple of seconds and already find my email waiting for me due to push email. I can start processing my email right away. It doesn’t sound like much but if you do that numerous times a day it can add up to a lot of saved time.
Surfing the web is very nice too. I am using Opera Mobile and it works very well. I’m getting good bandwidth using the AT&T 3G network but also am using the WiFi on the Tilt for web work. Nice and fast and a lot of fun. Using the Redfly is a lot like having an expanded Advantage although much better for data entry. Everything has worked just like you expect it to and I’ve experienced no problems so far.
I installed the trial for Pocket Informant and working with my PIM data on the 8 inch screen is just super. PI works well with the expanded resolution of the Redfly and I can see so much data on a single screen it’s like using a computer. That is the key ingredient the Redfly brings to the professional. It basically turns your smartphone into a real computer for $499. Some feel that is too expensive for a device like the Redfly that isn’t a real computer but I can see paying this for the functionality it brings if you already have a WM phone.
So far I am having a blast using the Redfly, I think Celio has produced a very airtight user experience. To me that is the advantage of the Redfly over what the Palm Foleo tried to be. There is a distinct advantage to not providing a processor and an OS on the Redfly, it keeps things drop dead simple and trouble-free. This approach will work well for those who work for mega-corporations who have provided them with WM phones. Those locked-down IT departments won’t even know if you’re using the Redfly so you can buy one yourself and not worry about running afoul of the IT police. The connection to the network is done strictly by the approved phone so the Redfly can be added at your end with no problems. That could be a big deal to the professional that the Redfly targets.
UPDATE: Fellow podcaster and ZDNET blogger Matt Miller has a Redfly too and has posted some first impressions with a short video and lots of photos.
Wow, thats pretty cool. What is the weight of the redfly? How does netfront 3.5 look on it? have you connected it to a external lcd, and if so to what resolution does it output? Thanks in advanced james.
What a pitty that it is so expensive… It basically rules out everyone without a Windows Mobile phone as you can get almost four EEE’s for the price of a decent Windows Smartphone and a Redfly.
The Redfly weighs about 2 lbs. It’s pretty light. I haven’t tried Netfront on it yet but I intend to. It should look fine, Opera does.
Johan, I too wish the Redfly was cheaper but it’s not an apples to apples comparison to compare what you get with other devices. The beauty of the Redfly is that it is NOT a computer in my view. Hopefully once sales get cracking Celio can drop this price which would be very cool.
alexh, I haven’t hooked the Redfly up to an external monitor yet. Frankly I don’t know why you would. It’s already stretching it to expand a QVGA interface to the Redfly’s display so I’m not sure what you would buy to display that on an even bigger monitor. You just don’t need to. I can see the benefits of hooking a projector up to the Redfly for doing presentations though.
Very interesting. I carry around a WM device every day and having the ability to go to a bigger screen and keyboard would be very nice. You could even do presentations off this thing with that VGA out, I would imagine.
But… price. Just a tad high. Though being in Europe maybe it doesn’t hurt so bad right now considering the belly-flop the dollar is taking.
Great review James. I like the device, I even liked the Foleo and would have considered buying it when it eventually supported windows mobile phones.
The problem Celio has is the price. It’s about double the acceptable price for a device like this. The advantages to it are great but I just don’t see the justification.
That being said, I think I would use this a lot. I sell, install and maintain telephone systems and almost all of them have a windows PC on site with remote desktop activated. I could definitely see running around with this and logging in remotely for a customer call.
That being said, I think Celio should have added a 10/100 Ethernet Jack unless there is a USB dongle that supports WinMobile (which there probably is).
I was skeptical of the ability of Windows Mobile to scale up given the recent news that MS will be porting WinMobile to the MID platform however, the Celio is a nice proof of concept that this can be done.
James: great observations. The last 2 to 3 weeks here at JK have really been fantastic… reminds me of why I added your RSS feed to my news reader in the first place. Kudos to both you and Kevin on that.
You’ve accounted for the contents of your gear bag before. Keeping all of that constant, how often or under what circumstances do you think you would either add in or leave out this device.
When I’m home, I’m often going to my computer to do something that I can’t or don’t want to do on my phone, but in all honesty I HATE switching devices. To me, this actually looks like a great device to have sitting on my desk at home where I could “dock” my phone (still undecided on the value of toting around).
When Palm announced the Foleo, I really didn’t see the advantage of a device like this. Since then, mobile web browsers have come a long way, and really aren’t that far off from their desktop counterparts.
At this point, I could see using this for some serious mobile web browsing. You’d have the advantage of a full keyboard and LCD, without having to pop for an expensive tethering plan.
That’s a pretty big leg up on devices like the Eee Pc. You can be connected anywhere, with a laptop-like experience, without having to shell out more to your carrier.
I’m glad that it does what it is supposed to do, but I don’t get it – why would I want this? I thought I moved away from dumb terminals 15-20 years ago. So instead of just my phone and/or laptop I should carry this around? To do what?
James, the weight of your p1620 is less then 3 lbs – when coupled with your aircard you could do 100x as much as you can with this gadget.
Even if the p1620 is cost prohibative as compared to this device, you can pick up a p1610 on ebay for > $1000, and a lot of other computers are available for $500 or less.
To me, this device fits a niche that doesn’t exist.
It’s still FAIL.
http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/03/19/redfly-no-its-still-not-vd/
It’s neat. Like the Folio, it still sounds really good on the surface. I could see using it for emailing if I was a real email king. I imagine I’m not it’s target and at $499 an EEEpc or even a used 2nd gen tablet makes more sense.
There’s another pretty complete review and video of the Redfly on zdnet, to compare and contrast reviews.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=951
Is this the secret device you mentioned a few days ago?
I’m a “me too” on the price point. I could see this for my “living room” access to the net and for mobile browsing but for that price I’m more inclined to consider an EEE. Kevin, since you’ve used an EEE, might you offer some sort of a comparison?
I have to think that the Redfly will be DOA. Nice concept, but if I am getting a big screen with keyboard, I’m going to expect the full internet experience. I’m a big user of Opera mini on my Treo 700wx, but I know its limitations. Why would I consider swapping out my EeePC for a dumbed-down PC? My phone is with me always; but if I have to carry another item in my bag, it better add value to what I do, not take it away.
Hi James;
I’m going to chime in after reading both yours and Kevin’s review: this device sounds wonderful and all and it seems you both are very impressed with it’s ease of use and feature set. But the question still remains (except for a small subset of business users), why anyone would anyone want this over any number of other options?
Could you guys present a usage scenario when you do your follow up reviews?
*Neither you or Kevin use Windows Mobile phones
*This isn’t a touch/pen enabled device. Again, both you and Kevin rely on your P1620 and Samsung QI Ultra on a DAILY basis. Ecen using the loaner AT&T Tilts have touch screen capability with WinMo 6 Pro that is lost as soon as you hook up to the RedFly.
*Any one at “BIG COMPANY” has probably been issued a company laptop for work and travel. They may also NOT be on Windows Mobile but could very well be using a Blackberry device as you are.
*And it’s $499. For a little extra, you could get an Advantage and get the benefit of a larger screen (albeit not as large as the Redfly), more options on connectivity with the option of using it as a phone via bluetooth. Or, you could an application that will let you interact with the data on your phone (like Pocket Controller 6) for about $30 from your laptop.
As nice as this sounds, and as glowing as your early impressions are, I don’t see the case being made for ownership.
I wrote about here on Morning Paper shortly after the announcement.
http://morningpaper.typepad.com/morning_paper/2008/01/03/index.html
Interesting comments and good questions. I think there many conclusions being drawn here before enough time has been spent looking at the device. Believe me, I’m in the camp that initially thinks $499 is high, but I’m not going to summarily dismiss it based on that. Patience, young mobile padawans… we may come to the same conclusions (or perhaps not), but I’d rather base them on actual device use since the opportunity to do so is here. We have the devices for a good two weeks or so… take the bits and impressions in pieces and look for a summary at the end. We’ll also be discussing many of the questions / comments in the next podcast. Should be an interesting conversation with varying viewpoints…
JK – Question: One of the advantages with this device is possibly as a phone charger. If at night you plug in the device (and turn it off) to charge the redly, will it charge my phone? Also how big is the charger?
Another thing to think about is that the time and money spent on a redfly versus a laptop for maintenance and upkeep is zero. No antivirus, defragging, rebooting, software etc. Its instant-on everytime, it connects to the wm device 50 times faster than it takes for me to turn on my laptop and tether it to my ppc. Yes it totally depends on the ppc but if your redfly gets lost or stolen vs. your laptop you have zero risk of information theft. Yes it does have some limitations, I will admit, but don’t be too quick to dismiss it yet.
This is a cell phone accessory. At $100 it would be a great buy. At $200 I could see thinking about it. At $300? No.
At $500 it would only sell to people for whom price is not an issue, but people like that will probably get some fancy ultraportable laptop.
This seems like an even better implementation than the Foleo, but like the Foleo, the price point is too high for the market to bear.
The only conceivable hope that I can see for this device is if they can convince some corporate IT departments that the security and total cost of ownership for a WM phone+Redfly would be better than the alternatives for mobile workers. I can kind of see that. No data is stored on the Redfly itself. A WM6 phone can be wiped remotely. This is clearly more secure than a laptop based solution. It would also seem to be easier to swap out, in case of some problem, and be back up and running quickly.
I just love this idea! There are times when my poor old eyes just can’t take the strain of staring at a tiny smartphone display another minute. And now that Microsoft will be adding both Adobe Flash Lite and Reader LE to Windows Mobile it will make browsing the Internet even more enjoyable — I am so ready for that! And having the option of using a bigger screen will make it even better.
I totally agree with everyone about the price, but as we all know, prices almost always come down in time.
Great thread! Would this device work with any Windows Mobile device, or does it have to be a smartphone? I love the idea of instant on, portability, and having the option of taking along (or not) a larger screen and keyboard. Thanks!
Right now it is only available for the i 760, Mogul, 6800, Tilt,and the 700 WX
That said note that I successfully installed it and ran it with the HTC Advantage.
The only way I could justify the price on this device would be if it had a convertable form factor and a touch screen. That would bring real value with practical features. I hope you are listening Celio. I will be eagerly awaiting Redfly 2.0 with my wishlist above. Surely I can’t be alone in this feature request? Anyone else?
PS – Keep up the good work fellas. I appreciate your efforts.
I agree with Demetri, this thing sounds pretty cool, but NEEDS to be a convertible tablet.
I am a potential owner of this device and I think many here are underrating the advantages…or perhaps I value the advantages more than most. I like the idea of tethering without paying more to my cell phone company which nobody mentions here, 8 hours of battery life is awesome and you don’t get that with an EEE or HP Mini-note, and instant ON is VERY valuable to me…..I can’t stand carrying a notebook on a trip and having to wait for it to boot up in that 10 minutes before I board a plane (for years my HP instant on Jornada 680 was my perfect travel device). If I can plug this thing into my cell phone and be working in seconds that brings value over the usual UMPC solutions.
I already carry my Samsung 760 smartphone everyday anyway (one of the approved phones for Redfly). For short trips I usually add an IGo bluetooth keyboard so I can touch type emails. I have an internet business and I do a lot of emails on the run…and I log into my server from my smartphone to run orders, etc. I was getting all excited to buy a HP MINI NOTE for some longer trips I have coming but the battery life of that unit is NOT acceptable and most of the time it would just sit around waiting on my next road trip. This Redfly device would be perfect for what I need to do on the run and the instant on, long battery life, and free tethering, make it a winner. I agree the price is high but I may still go this way if the promise of the 8 hour battery atom powered UMPC does not materialize real soon…
Looking around the Internet today I see lots of good reviews…I wonder how fast we will see a mass market version by ASUS….for $249?
I got the Celio Redfly to go with a T-Mobile Ameo (aka HTC Advantage) running WM6, and don’t seem to be having quite the experience you did.
There seem to be video driver issues resulting in images and icons appearing warped and distorted.
Would you mind sharing which video driver you use, please?
Dale, I used the HTC Tilt driver when I tested the Redfly and it worked OK. If you’re running RealVGA it might create the issues you indicate.
Thanks very much for replying. It’s very strange… I’m using the Tilt drivers too, and still having problems. I wonder if T-Mobile do anything different to it as part of the ‘Ameo’ branding.
I don’t use RealVGA (or anything else to alter the resolution or display), and images still appear like this:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii311/dale_lane/photo139.jpg
Still sort of recognisable, but kind of warped. The same happens for images in other apps – if you view a webpage in PIE or Opera Mobile, the text is all fine and readable, but images warp and distort like that. Shame
FYI – the warped graphics issue I was having was corrected by the firmware update for the Redfly released on 13th Aug. Interesting that it wasn’t the driver installed on the HTC Advantage that was the problem, but the firmware on the Redfly itself.
Dale, JK,
I’ve picked up a Redfly but I can’t get the software to install on my Ameo. Any hints on how to get it to install?
Ah, the beta worked for me in the end. My actual issue was with active sync. It does seem to run a bit slow though.