Could an OEM make a UMPC the size of a Psion or HP Jornada? Yes, OQO already proved the point as their OQO UMPC is actually about 33% smaller in volume than the Psion which is smaller than the HP Jornada.

The OQO currently sells for $1299 US directly from OQO. I do not see how making it a little larger and providing a touch type keyboard is going to change the price much? That price is also what OQO needs to sell their small volume to make money. Given that a touch type keyboard is what mainstream users are used and would prefer, it would likely sell a lot more units. That increased volume would enable the production cost to go down and likely less than many UMPC’s today.

The facts are that in all of 2007 only 350,000 UMPC’s worldwide sold (12/2007 Forbes article). The only times any UMPC’s sold out was when OEM’s had to discount them probably at a loss to get rid of them.

Marketing? Cool factor? That does not sell computers. How many UMPC’s were sold? not many James. Tech people think they are great, but mainstream users won’t buy them. The simple reason is exactly the topic, “size does matter”.

The problem is for most people we buy a computer for function not as a cool toy. Functionally speaking what is missing is a jacket size clamshell UMPC. UMPC’s run full Windows OS right? How James does the world use full Windows OS and software? they use a touch type keyboard. Thus why in the world would mainstream users want an input different? they dont. The size does matter as the only devices that provides that type of input they want that runs full Windows OS/software is a laptop.

That is the real problem. UMPC’s could be huge if they provided a touch type keyboard input running full Windows OS but in a size small enough to carry in a jacket pocket. That provides a clear advantage for mainstream users whom would love to have the functionality of a computer but do not want to lug a laptop everywhere. I am addressing the topic but you seem to ignore the facts. I am all for UMPC’s but until the OEM’s create a touch type keyboard jacket pocket UMPC, they will never sell very many units per year.

Al / Teddy44 (since you have the same IP address which lowers my opinion of your thoughts from the get-go), as I read it, this post is about size and mobile devices. Price is an issue as is input method. Comparing the HP Jornada (which I had) or the Psion 5mx PDA to a today’s UMPCs and sub-notebooks makes no sense since they’re designed for different markets using different operating systems. Could an OEM get full Windows in a clamshell the size of either of those devices. Probably, but what do you think it would cost? More or less than today’s UMPCs? I’d say more and I think current market prices would back me up. Based on your argument, that wouldn’t matter though… price is irrelevant.

If your argument were to be valid, the number of UMPCs sold wouldn’t vary on price, yet we see them sell out under MSRP on Woot consistently. Quote all the sales numbers you want but to say price isn’t an issue is just short-sighted. It’s part of several issues and reasons why the UMPC market isn’t bigger than it is.

You missed one key issue and that’s marketing. I was just at Starbucks with my Samsung UMPC over the weekend and no less than 4 people stopped me and asked about the “cool new computer” I was using. People simply don’t see handheld computing devices enough to realize they’ve been around for years. Nor do they see them next to traditional notebooks in retail stores.

Regardless, let’s stick to the topic at hand in the post, ‘k?

James,
You are talking about the Asus EEE PC that is just a cheap computer more of a conventional laptop shape, that is not really a UMPC at all. The only computers remotely in the UMPC category that has been getting any numbers of sales and interest are devices like that are ultra cheap laptop shapes. Yes for children and people in poverty they would buy that over a laptop but for the rest of the world they would buy a laptop over any of the true UMPC’s and not due to price at all.

I am talking about the all the other UMPC’s, the many slates from 4-7″, the thumb input devices, OQO, and others. Those have had very weak sales and it is not the price it is their input and size.

James,

Really? so many EEE PC? So in 2007 all the companies whom make a UMPC only sold 350,000 units worldwide; a lot of units sold? Compared to the Psion which sold more than that per year with just one device.

Yes everyone likes a cheap price but more important to mainstream users is function for the money and thus far UMPC’s do not provide that. Mainstream users do not want a thumb input device nor a pen only input and certainly not a device bigger than a jacket pocket otherwise they would buy a laptop. Show me the numbers James? Can you show me millions of UMPC sales? nope becuase there are none, even after over a year and half.

Al, oh I’m real already. I also remember the Psion, very cool device. But no one but geeks bought them, mainstream consumers didn’t even know what they were. Price is ALWAYS a big factor with mainstream consumers no matter what the features. That is why the EEE PC has sold so many units. Price, not features. A pocketable device with a full-sized keyboard would be cool but physically very difficult. And mainstream consumers by and large could care less about putting a PC in their pocket. Everyone’s needs are different but everybody likes cheap prices.

James, remember the Psion 5mx? It had an expanding keyboard yet was only 3.6 ” x 6.9″ x .90″. That device along with others such as the HP Jornada sold well over 2.3 million each year. Those devices provided easy touch type input in a jacket pocket and did not have full windows. Those devices in the 1990’s sold for about $1000.00 US.

How many UMPC’s sold in 2007? only 350k

James, price has nothing to do with it. Nobody in the mainstream is going to want to use full windows with their thumbs or try to learn to write a new way with a pen input. Mainstream users do not find it cool to carry a “man purse” to carry a bulky non jacket size UMPC and if they must carry any computer larger than a jacket pocket most would buy a laptop. The price has nothing to do with it, the flaw thus far is no true touch type keyboard and no jacket size UMPC’s. Get real.

Price is not that big of a deal. The IBM computer was not small enough to be carried in any pocket. Mainstream users want to just carry one computer to do all they want to do. Until a UMPC is small enough to be carried in a coat pocket as others mentioned with a touch type keyboard input running full windows OS then and only then will they ever sell to the mainstream market.

Right now only people whom love computers willing to own many devices probably for their personal passion for computers are purchasing them. Those few people always try to blame the price. It is not the price at all, it is the size and weak input.

Remember that IBM laptop that had the butterfly keyboard? It was nice and small but the keyboard opened up to a full-sized keyboard. It was brilliant design but they didn’t sell any so they didn’t sell it very long. I’ll bet price had a lot to do with that which is why the EEE PC is so important. Until these are cheap enough mainstream consumers will not buy them

There is no perfect mobile device to me because too many geeks and tech people are influencing the new devices and the computer companies seem to lack the insight to what mainstream users want and only listen to that narrow viewpoint.

It is like having engineers whom really know the internal technology of say an automobile but they do not have the social awareness to have the right input to tell a car company how to create the automobile form factor.

We already have laptops, tablets and PDA’s. What is missing is a brdige device that provides the functionality of a laptop but made for the millions of sales, marketing, and mobile managers whom just need a basic computer. What I would recommend is a modern version of a clamshell HPC, like the old Psion 5mx or HP Jornada 720. I polled about 50 marketing reps in varios trades in my industry and 49 out 50 when shown and tried out my HP Jornada 728 said they would love to see a device about that size that had full windows, a brighter screen, and wireless; they said they could see that replacing their laptop.

There is a large percentage of laptop users whom are more concerned about being mobile than a large screen but the computer needs a touch type keyboard and be jacket pocket size. A device given that parameters could be up to 7.3″ long, 4″ maybe maxing at 4.25″ wide and ideally 1″ or less in height.

The millions of business users would rather have a pocket size computer but we want it to have a touch type keyboard input, have full Windows so we can run industry specific softwares in addtion the standard MS suite of programs, and we want it to fold up and store in a jacket pocket so we can carry it everywhere without the need for a briefcase or computer bag. The Psion and HP clamshells provided a nice wide 7″ screen that was narrow to enable it to be stored in a jacket pocket.

I see that being the key reason for the weak UMPC and likely weak MIDS sales. Whom wants a full windows UMPC when the input is not how all of us have been used to and prefer to input via a touch type keyboard? We do not want a pen input or thumb input.

Why would we buy a second device that is not small enough to be carried in a large jacket pocket that has such poor input? Business users want to carry the least to function so if it is not jacket pocket size you might as well get a laptop. Only techies and geeks think it is cool to carry a UMPC around or carry around with a “man purse”.

UMPC’s in 2007 sold a meger 350K units worldwide between all companies according to the December Forbes article. That proves the form factor is not mainstream. I am shocked not once UMPC nor MID has used that clamshell form factor. Especially if you look at the past numbers. In 1990 the jacket pocket clamshells sold over 2.3 million units worldwide. How many did all the companies of UMPC sold in 2007? 350k

Great Article James. I always find it interesting to see what size computer different people think is easiest to carry around. I agree that lighter is always better, but I carried around an 7 pound laptop for years and never gave it a second thought.

BTW, I’m one of those 2 laptop guys now. Tablet or UMPC on the plane or in the airport and then a 15 inch dell for the hotel or training session (I’m the trainer). Actually, I tend to use both the tablet and the laptop during training. The laptop is for powerpoint and software demos, the tablet is for note taking and connectivity back to the office during the training session. People are always amazed when they ask a question during training that I don’t know the answer to. I promise to get back to them and then the answer shows up on their Blackberry during a break instead of later that night or the next day. Mobile tech make me look good.

Like you said, what works best is different for everyone.

BTW, I try and read your blog everyday. Thank you to you and Kevin for all the hardwork.

The NEC MobilePro 900 has the perfect all-purpose form factor for me. The 92% full pitch keyboard is the best feature. However, the aging hw and sw specs results in a lot of extra work to continue using it with my desktop machines.

I prefer usb keys to activesync, but the usb support sucks for flash drives. Work collaboration on large docs means I can’t use the MP for the bulk of my writing now.

I like my TC1100, but the top-heavy screen makes it impractical for lap use and its weight discourages tablet use. I’d considered the LS800 and even a Macbook air (hate its keyboard) but always find myself returning to my Nec when I can. It’s a perfect implmentation of the 80/20 rule for me.

I was set to buy an EEEpc 4g last weekend until I tried that tiny keyboard. I hope the keyboard on the 9″ is better.

So, I’m waiting on pins and needles hoping the HP 2133 will be the MP 900 upgrade I’ve wished for. I’ve actually delayed a laptop purchase until April 7, but if the 2133 doesn’t materialize that week or isn’t what it appears, I’ll compromise by getting an cheap midsize laptop. I’ll revist my mobile computing usage when the 9″ EEEpc finally arrive.

Mickey, sharing information between devices is always the trick but I’ve been relying on a simple yet effective method- a 16 GB SD card. I just take what I need with me on the SD card which I can use in all my devices. Sometimes brute force is good.

I can agree with the theory but I’ve reached my own compromises. I don’t have a need for significant key input outside of my office so I opt for one laptop and one desktop. The desktop has a better keyboard, screen, and mouse than any standard laptop I have found.

For my laptop, size matters even more to me than it does to you so after looking seriously at the P1510 and LS800, I went with my pocketable OQO.

I’m typing this now on my desktop but when I get up to go to lunch my OQO (currently hanging from my belt) will go with me.

James – how difficult is it to coordinate information on different computers? I found such coordination to be a bother, and this is the reason I use a docked Motion LS800 as my main computer instead of a desktop computer that is several times as fast.

For my situation it is easy to specify the ideal solution – a slate slightly smaller than the LS800 which is also a phone, and has low weight, long battery life, and low price.

What would be the ideal for your situation? A slate with a snap-off keyboard? A hard-drive that moves back and forth between a small convertible and a larger convertible? Storing all your information on the Web so there is nothing to move between different computers?

Thanks James for the thought provoking article.

I am trying to decide these issues myself, as must I imagine many people. As you note, on their own particular circumstances.

Personally I am nearly settled on a one device setup. This has to be big enough for everything yet portable all the time (I have an X61T). Yet it isn’t really a one device solution, as I need a smart phone too!

Thank you for that James. It sheds light on some of your posts and they make sense given your needs.

I purchased the p1620 based on your posts and my evaluation of my needs and I am happy with the choice. I think for my needs a 10″ screen would be nirvana with a active digitizer that supported touch. I have gotten used to the keyboard and can now type almost as fast as on a larger one. The inking is okay, not great and I have had some weird things happen while taking notes in meetings. I use mindmanager as my notetaking tool and there have been several times when the pen just wouldn’t write all of a sudden. I’ve had to quickly open onenote and take notes in there. Not sure how to solve that one. I have the port replicater at home and hook up to a large monitor but when traveling just take the 1620. That is so much better than the brick I used to carry. Thank you for your posts, I enjoy them and they help.