Which device spec do you prefer: price, small size, storage capacity or other?
With the trend of notebooks getting smaller and lighter, I figure now is a good time to ask this question. The Asus Eee PC clearly started a trend towards both a low price and a small size; the compromise was in terms of performance. Not that the performance is bad, but relatively speaking, it is lower than higher-priced notebooks. Now I see that Acer is planning a low-cost 12.1-inch device that will top out around $450. That unit is expected to complement their 8.9-inch device which should start around $300.While most mobile users want it all (great performance, tons of storage, portability, connectivity and, oh yes, a low, low price), I’m not sure we’re there just yet. So my question to you as we continue down this trend of smaller, lighter and cheaper is: what do you value most in a device like this? Put another way: if you have to compromise on price, storage capacity, performance, or size / weight, which would you choose? Just curious…. I realize that everyone’s needs and requirements are different of course.
considering these machines will primarily be used as secondary devices, i would say performance. i’m not looking to run games or HD movies on it. low price is obviously critically for a secondary machine, so is size/weight to carry with you as your “little buddy”, i also like HP’s storage approach with cheap, fast, 2.5″ HDD’s.
Price: this is an issue. I cannot put 1500$ for a companion PC.
Power: That’s less critical to me on the road. I just want to write a few mails, talk to my wife and son (voip), take a few notes and show a few slideshows.
UI: I want a nice integration. Things must be smooth.
Size: If I can I would use a pocketable mini computer. The MIDs are pretty interesting.
i meant to say BIG (storage wise), cheap, & fast 2.5″ HDD’s.
oh yes, for the love of god manufactures. PLZ all use 6-cell batteries in your devices, it usually nets 6-7hours of battery life instead of 3-4 like 3-cells do. i dont care that it adds .3lbs to the weight, these are not vertical market tablet devices so a little extra weight isnt as important.
I use an Eee Pc daily. When I say daily, I mean all day, everyday.
To me, the biggest compromise of the Eee Pc is the screen size/resolution, which requires an awful lot of scrolling.
I really like the Eee Pc. However, in the future, I don’t know that I’d compromise on the LCD again.
I’m eagerly awaiting the next wave of ULCPCs, or whatever it is they want us to call them this week.
I’d give up on performance first, then price.
First off, I need a device that can go anywhere with me, at any time, to the same extent that my cell phone is always with me.
This means that first and foremost, it must be pocketable. If it’s not pocketable, it’s going to be left at home/at my desk. My Nokia 770 just about fits that bill, but it is sloooow.
Next up, it must be able to last all day. My Sony TX can just barely do that. My UX, on the other hand, doesn’t come close, and neither does the Nokia 770. I’m willing to sacrifice some performance to that end, so good aggressive power management can make up for a lot of this.
Finally, it must have enough storage space for all of my data. If it’s a pocketable device, it’s going to take up space that I’d otherwise have reserved for an iPod, a camera, or maybe a BT keyboard for my phone. Since these can’t come with me, I’d better be able to shunt my photos onto it, carry my music and video on it, and have my documents available. That’s going to eat up around 20 GB of raw storage, and I *still* would need some scratch space.
If there was one device that could do all of this, and do it quickly (not at top speed, of course,) I really wouldn’t care about the price or the performance. Can it use a tethered phone? Can I add a 3G radio? Does it have WiFi? Can it run MS Office (or compatible) apps? Can I view PDFs with fluid panning and zooming? Can I launch a Terminal Services client? Can I play MP3s while websurfing? Can it handle Flash video?
I don’t need it to compile code at lightning speed, or perform 3D modeling work. It doesn’t need to play Crysis, though Quake 3 would be nice. It just needs to be slightly more powerful, and slightly thinner than the Raon Everun, especially with that kickass zooming feature. Stretch that screen as close to the edge of the case as possible, and maximize that screen real estate, and then you can absolutely sign me up at damned near any price.
(Oh, and a slider keyboard that doesn’t suck would be very nice, too.)
this thread is clearly about small laptops hence “with notebooks getting smaller & lighter” & the comparisons to EEE. yet here come the OQO zealots to rebuff their tired old ideals. face it, for now at least handtops are dead. OQO is flopping, Sony hasnt updated the UX in 2 years, Intel has completely abandoned the platform for MIDS.
if you want to desire your handtop devices thats fine, but please do it on the appropriate websites & forums. stop hijacking these instead, the big boys who make decisions are not going to change their minds based on a tiny few internet zealots (unless you plan to front the millions in R&D).
I’m sure I’ll be in the minority on this, but I would compromise on price before any of those other items. I tend to look at my mobile devices as an investment towards productivity and I’d rather spend more on something that is going to meet my needs well enough for fairly heavy use over a reasonably extended period of time. I tend to think that an over-focus on price could ultimately cost me more as I keep upgrading to the “latest and greatest” or keep trialing new devices in an attempt to find the one that works best.
When I recently purchased my Vye S37, I certainly gave serious consideration to the Eee PC, which offered a very similar form-factor for less than 1/3 the price that I paid. In the end, I just decided that I couldn’t live with the major limitations in storage space, performance, etc. Spending more money probably means I’ll keep my system longer than I would have otherwise (I used my eo v7110 for nearly 2 years), but I don’t really think that is a bad thing.
Size, weight, speed and price are all important.
Having used laptops as primary computers for almost 10 years now (including for gaming), I would say feature and price are a definitive relationship.
I always had small but fast laptops for my primary devices.
Generic (Gericom) laptop
Dell Latitude x300
Lenovo x60 Tablet
I would never go above 3.5 lbs for my primary laptop and do not want a screen bigger than 12″ (I have a nice multi-monitor setup at work).
As a secondary computer I would definitely want something even smaller, lighter and cheaper.
THIS I would buy:
along the following lines:
2 lbs or less
8″ screen
don’t care what OS (linux, XP_ but needs to be FAST and open to install programs (none of the proprietary crap)
less than $200
I would disagree about being a secondary toy or device. For UMPC’s to create a real market they must be functional enough to be the primary device when mobile. If they had the features below it would easily sell millions for a price up to $1500. Sure cheaper would be nice but I think it would easily sell at least $250 to 500 or more than a basic laptop due to the increased mobility.
Here is what kind of UMPC the mainstream would buy:
1. It should have a clamshell form factor about 3.6″ x 7″ x 1″ That would enable it to differentiate between any laptop or computer too large to carry in a jacket pocket.
2. It should have the largest possible keyboard with not one millimter wasted between any keys or the boarder. The world uses touch type keyboards for inputing in full Windows so that is what will sell and what people want. They do not want thumb input or pen only and the results of UMPC’s thus far prove that.
3. It should have the largest screen also given that size with virtually no space wasted on the boarders. Screen should be touch type to avoid need for a mouse.
4. It should have full desktop Windows OS so that it can run any third party softwares needed for most mobile business users.
5. Battery life should be no less than 3 hours and obviously more the better with a removable battery so one could swap a fresh one easily.
6. I know most of the comments will likely be from tech people whom will have a micro view on the internals but really mainstream only cares that it has adequate power to run the OS and 2-3 programs opened at once, should have input for connecting to external screen and projector for powerpoints, ample removable additional memor slots, whatever is the current wireless.
Ideal device to build upon would be the shape of a Psion 5mx but with current technology on the inside running full Windows. That device proved that a jacket size clamshell could provide a touch type keyboard that one could input near desktop speeds.
My ideal lightweight PC is essentially a commuting device. I have to be able to hold it in one hand while standing up (lightweight and compact), however it does have to be usable with two hands for typing and doing some work (keyboard is a must). Being in such a small size screen around 5in, which means fewer people looking over my shoulder. I’d also rather have a high-res screen and zoom inside my apps rather than having to constantly scroll around. Battery life is less of an issue as long as I get about two hours out of it; I’ll charge it once at work or back at home. It’s got to be Windows as all the productivity software is on that platform and I don’t have the time to worry about compatability and formats. It has to fit in a jacket pocket and shouldn’t weigh much above 500g. I’m a bit more forgiving about speed as long as video is properly accelerated all the way up to HD (media one of the primary uses of the device); of course, faster is always better. Storage isn’t my primary concern as I’ll keep a much larger library back home and just copy what I need for the day/week. The upcoming LG and the current OQO fit this bill pretty well.
If the UMPC was the size of a Psion 3.6″ x 6.9″ then it would provide 1/2 VGA so you would not need to scroll left or right as it would have the same width as a desktop screen. I looked the the OQO and the LG but with a thumb input keyboard it would not provide the two handed touch type input that a UMPC just a bit longer would. I think the Psion is the ideal size as it provides enough room for a real keyboard; I used to type about 85% of desktop speeds on the Psion 5mx keyboard and it still fits easily in a jacket pocket.
I would first give up on price, then storage capacity, then performance, and finally size / weight. In other words, size / weight is most important and price is least.
That is to say the OQO 02 is most desirable right now (except for the noise / reliability concerns I’ve heard about).
On the other hand, the Nokia N810 is nearly there. It’s got the size and weight, but can’t do video out. One of my main use cases is presentations, so I can’t accept anything without a D-SUB 15 output to the typical video projectors I encounter.
A huge problem for me is that I believe the size/weight advantage of the OQO is most of what causes the fan noise / reliability problems. The Samsung Q1-UP would solve that problem, but how long could I hold it one-handed? How could I work the left keyboard if I’m holding it by the right? With two infants, I’m not expecting to have both hands free for a long time.
Of course, I’m talking about a machine that would serve several use cases if I don’t compromise on price. They don’t all require one-handed use. Maybe a combination of the N810 and an EEE PC would do it.
The current EeePC just became a dead thing to me. WordPress has gone to 2.5 on me and uploading now uses a popup Flash/Java/Shockwave whutevah window that an EeePC user already related to me is bad news on that lo-res screen.
So I need a higher-res screen just for blogging. Then the usual: small totable size with negligible weight, some GBage storage, all for CHEEP.
I don’t ask for much!!
Lightweight and storage is my need.
Pen input is my preferred input method when mobile, but a keyboard ok. I’ve got a fast desktop at home for my heavy lifting. For my mobile computing, I need storage space not processing power.
A Motion LS800 or an EEEPC would fit the bill if it had 80+ gig of storage.
The question you pose between price and performance is one that we in Europe cannot afford, and we are truly envious.
Europe is a collection of failed socialist states whose legacy, whose debilitating legacy, is high taxes. We pay $10 for a gallon of gas, $11 for a pack of cigarettes, plus a 40% top rate of tax on income, savings and investments, plus 10% social insurance contributions, plus property taxes, plus car tax, plus 17.5% sales tax on every item we purchase, apart from food, books and children’s clothes.
The average worker in Europe doesn’t know how much he pays in taxes. If he did, he would think himself lucky if he got to spend 50c of every dollar he earned.
The socialist ship of state was never wieldy, and is only now kept afloat, temporarily, by such a fair breeze from the Orient. Half of Europe is crippled by high taxes; and the other half, recovering from communism, has a relatively low GDP. Both halves look with envy at what you have on your desk at Mobile Tech Manor.
That OQO 02, fully specced, is for sale on Expansys UK at nearly $4,000; a base model, refurbished/second hand, is offered at $1,800. I would have to earn $8,000 to buy that top model. I wouldn’t think about it anymore than the other half of Europe could think about the refurbished model.
Not for a second PC.
For Photoshopping, video editing and storage, I need a 17″ laptop with a fast processor and a large disk. But, at 6lbs, it is an unwieldy beast, on my lap, or in bed.
I’ve had enough of Windows Mobile and its cut down versions of Office apps.
1. I want my second PC to run full versions of Office 2007 and sync seamlessly with my other computer, without any loss of formatting in Word, Access, Excel, Outlook and OneNote.
2. I want it most of all for wirelessly surfing the net, and to render the net as it should be, without unnecessary scrolling.
3. I want it to be within arm’s reach at all times.
4. I want to be able to use it standing up, sitting down, or lying down.
5. I want to be at the home screen in seconds.
6. I want to be able to chuck it in the car and not be too heartbroken should it be broken or stolen.
It has to be the EeePC 900 with Windows XP.
The Euro–the socialist dollar–is no competitor for the real one, but, if I am right, then it may be Europe that decides the outcome of this question– price v performance. There are, after all, some 350 million of us. Half of us will buy the EeePC as a second PC, and half as a one-and-only. Neither half can afford anything else.
For me, the top things are:
1. Size – I want this thing to be THIN with a 7″ screen. The Q1U works for me, but thinner would be great!
2. Battery life – willing to sacrifice performance for longer life.
3. Pen input – ideal would be touch + active digitizer on a 7″ screen. When will we start seeing those?
Joseph Kim, M.D.
http://mdjosephkim.blogspot.com/
Actually the past couple days, while waiting for my new tablet I’ve been thinking about this as a technical exercise. As a “realistic” concept, this is what I came up with; ie, given the cash to buy parts, and someone who can work with shop tools, I could build something like this (fulltime) in about a week or two after all the parts arrive. The estimated cost indicated would be me purchasing parts at retail; I’m sure that if a company were to crank these out, they’d make some dough.
I’m wondering if I can get some feedback on the specifications side. Hopefully I can get some renders of what such a device would look like soon. Heck, this could end up being an interesting summer project. Hmm…
1.2 GHz Core 2 Duo (Fujitsu P1620)
2GB RAM (might need to be soldered)
40GB HDD (trying to keep costs down here)
7″ 1024×600 touchscreen, LED-lit (Samsung Q1UP)
Intel X3100 graphics set
Will have a touch-typeable keyboard
VGA Webcam
Stereo speakers
Wi-Fi
SD Card slot
2 USB 2.0 ports
DVI out
Optimized version of Windows Vista
Physical Dimensions: 7.5″ x 6″ x 1.2″ (19cm x 15.25cm x 3cm)
Weight: 2.2 pounds (1 kg)
Battery life: 3.5 hours normal use (Wi-Fi on, “normal” brightness) with hot swap capability
Cost: no more than US$900
No, I’m not kidding. I’m totally serious. The main problem on paper I’m currently having is optimizing battery life. It should be solvable.
Living in the swamp infested mountains of Norway I will have to say that availability is a priority. And a device that can be used in direct sunlight – is there such a thing?
And what gg said.
Since my overwhelming uses are reading documents and doing basic editing, the things I highly prioritise are
1. Screen size at least 7in, ideally 9 in, but ideally the size should not be much larger than the screen (ie no huge borders like the EEE PC). Thickness of up to an inch isn’t a problem.
2. Low price. Because I’m using these things on trains, buses, coffee shops, etc, they’re more at risk of being dropped/stolen/etc. So I want something I could afford to replace after a year, which for me is at most 300GBP.
3. Battery life. I’d ideally like an 8 hours day of usage for reading and editing. Probably wouldn’t do that every day, but it’d get used often enough.
For that I can compromise on:
1. Speed. Anything that can run document viewers, editors and syntax checking compilers is enough, and a low-overhead OS like Linux would be fine for me; I’d guess equivalent of a 400MHz Pentium-M would be fine for me, particularly if it significantly increased battery life.
2. Storage. I need enough for immediate documents (say 4G) but I tend to work on the same things for periods of time, so I can rotate stuff into/out-of to my desktop. In practice, I suspect providing greater storage has much less effect on cost than any of the other device components.
3. Weight. As I don’t hand-hold much, greater than average weight doesn’t matter too much.
4. Connectivity. I really don’t use mobile networking very much, so I can very much compromise on this.
For Me it is all about the ability to replicate the computing experience at my house on the go or quickly. The EEE is so close to what exactly I feel is ideal for the market. This then means full keyboard with a full OS. Basically this is then not altering the computing experience (ie OQO) but rather replicating it. The EEE 900 (as hoped) would be the perfect I believe in the computing experience. I have seen some fan drawings of a EEE to tablet conversion and I think that would be really the ultimate.
But anyways the most important things to me:
Price: If this is a computing movement that costs around 500 dollars it will show a mature view of computers as a product of our age not an overpriced fad.
Replication of Computiing Expirence: In doing so you always try and strive to achieve the same computing expirence. If there is a constant push then eventually there will be little to no difference.
Battery Life: If it is going to be mobile then it has to be long lasting
Weight/Size: Remember this is MOBILE
Then a last real focus Storage: As long as it remains solid state then the mobility is greatly increased.
Ah, yes, let’s trot out the old zealotry argument. After all, it’s so hard to avoid reading something that you disagree with, so why not resort to attacking the writer over the mythical “handtop problem” instead?
The question was asked, but it ignores a significant problem: Subnotes aren’t getting any smaller, and the writer of the article *uses a UMPC all the time.* The Q1U isn’t really much smaller than a Sony TZ subnote, and the Asus EeePC is around the same size as the Fujitsu P1620. There’s a limit to how small these things can get in the subnote category before you start jumping into MID territory, and that leads pretty nice into the next point: No one’s been willing to stand by their own definitions for a MID. Some of the demonstrated units ran Linux, some ran WinMo, and others ran Vista.
If you have a problem with gadget fans commenting on mobile computing gadgets on a mobile computing gadget blog, you can always start your own blog and disable comments.
(And for the record, there isn’t a good handtop out there, but the UX was upgraded to a Core 2 Duo less than a year ago. If you’re going to go on the attack, at least get your facts in order.)
To my mind, there are maxima and minima that I am looking for in some categories and directions that I am looking for in others. Note that I am looking for a PC to take to meetings with the capability to run just about anything I run on my desktop.
1) Performance – I want something that runs Windows, ideally Vista for the improved handwriting recognition.
Minimum – 1.5GHz Via or equivalent, 1GB RAM.
Maximum – none – power is good.
2) Size – I want something that will fit in a pocket so it can’t be too bulky. I also want something that will support handwriting recognition which means that it can’t be too small.
Maximum size would be about 6″ x 3.5″ x 1″.
Minimum would be about 5″ x 3″ x 0.25″.
3) Battery life – I need to be able to last through a long meeting while working in Word or PowerPoint and while connected to the Internet.
Minimum life – about 2.5 hours.
Maximum life – none – all day sounds nice.
4) Weight – I need to hold it while inking and carry it in my pocket or on my belt.
Maximum – 1 pound.
Minimum – 1 ounce – so it doesn’t blow away.
5) Storage – I’m not that concerned as long as it can handle the OS and a few big applications. I can carry big files on a USB key or SD card.
7) Price – I’m not that concerned here, either. I’m willing to pay a reasonable amount extra to get what I want.
Once you hit the target max/min, my tradeoffs would be weight over everything else, thickness next, and performance and battery life about equal.
Most people here may be in the niche whom have purchased the few UMPC’s created thus far so that would be a slightly biased view. The larger 7″ screens would not be what consumers would buy unless it was the narrow clamshell size where the computer had a 3.6″ x 7″ screen. I think that is the best size as it is large enough to provide true touch type input yet will fit into a jacket pocket. Smaller than than you might as well get a Windows Mobile PDA. Larger than that (once the computer is wider than 4.25″) will never fit into even a jacket pocket so that will clearly not sell as shown with the UMPC sales thus far.
Devices like the EEE and others the size of a laptop to me are not what many would want as I would rather just buy a laptop. Large devices like that with tablet pen input are cools but tablets still do not sell that well.
The size must be small enough for a jacket pocket yet maximize that space so it has the largest screen and keyboard that provides good touch type input. Couple it with full windows OS and resonable power and battery that will sell as a primary mobile device for millions. The jacket size and having a touch type keyboard is what the mainstream will want and buy; the other larger suggestions would satisfy the few existing UMPC owners but that will never be a mass market computer.
I want a dongle-free, fully-functional tablet PC that can also replace various handheld devices (except a basic cell phone). My priorities are as follows:
1) Form Factor: IMO 9″-10″ convertible tablets provide the best trade-off between portability and useability. Ideal device footprint for me would be no greater than 7.5″ x 9.5″. 2.5 lbs is workable but even that becomes heavy after prolonged handheld use.
2) Ease of Use: This includes traditional hardware performance factors such as processor speed, memory, and data access rates. In addition, I believe there is significant opportunity to improve OS responsiveness and I/O ease of use. A simple example might be reducing the wait time required to wake from sleep so that portable PCs could offer standby capability similar to cell phones. Another example is improving touchscreen operability so that stylus inputs are interpreted correctly on first pass.
3) Price: As a business user I am willing to pay for dependable performance and ease of use. My target price is $1200-$1800 based on configured options. A slightly larger footprint might be acceptable if the device offered improved performance with cheaper components (for example, by utilizing a 2.5″ SATA HDD and SODIMM memory instead of 1.8″ PATA and Micro-DIMM).
The Fujitsu P1620 comes close but is still not ideal. A tablet version of the new HP Mini-Note with a faster processor would offer another possibility… or if the LG P100 was trimmed down and sold in the US… or if the Sony TZ and UX were morphed together (and became significantly cheaper)…
I agree with a number of the other postings in that I want a simple clamshell computer that can fit in a large coat pocket typical of any suit, etc. I have been searching UMPC’s for a long time and have been unimpressed as they are all too large and I would never purchase a computer running full windows operating system only to have a pen input or a thumb keyboard, that would be pointless.
It should be no larger than the maximum dimensions of a coat pocket which someone said is about 4″ x 7.25″ x 1.2″ or so which I would agree but prefer if it was as thin as possible.
I would want it to have either a clamshell design or maybe something out of the ordinary like how the Samsung SPH P9200 provided three sections of folding.
It must have full desktop windows so I can run third paryt business softwares and adequate memory and cpu to function smoothly. It needs to be able to plug into a projector and have at least 2 USB ports.
Price I would be willing to pay $1000 to $2000 depending on how fast the processor and memory is. For me the increased mobility of being able to carry it in a coat pocket is worth a premium over any other computer larger.
If it can not be carried in a coat pocket I see very little difference between any computer from 9″ to 15″ laptops as you need to carry them in a briefcase or computer bag so I would opt for a more powerful true laptop over the other suggested larger existing or wish list UMPC’s.
Right now I see no such device available for purchase. The closest thing is the Samsung SPH P9200 but I do not see that being sold in the US?
I think a UMPC needs to be truly mobile and to me that means you can carry it on your person without any bag of any kind. Wasn’t the nick-name “origami”? To me that creates visions and expectations of a foldable computer that is usable when folded and very small when not in use.
I do like the Samsung SPH P9200 that DavidR referenced as that seems like a real origami device. I would like to see more of that and would buy one of those given a chance.
To me hardware companies need to go back to the original concept of origami and make a UMPC that has a touch type keyboard when folded open and make it small enough to fit into at least the larger coat pocket others mentioned. It would be cool if it could be folded into smaller pockets but maybe technology is not there yet?
Either way I feel that is is realistic to create at least a foldable computer that we could carry in a coat pocket. That to me is the most important feature. It also has to have at touch type keyboard. To me that is one of the biggest reason why I have not purchased one. What good is my windows programs if I am wasting time and getting corpal tunnel injury in my hands trying to thumb input?
Make the batter at least 4 hours and removable. Enable many USB slots for accessories and at least two memory card slots. Ohh yes add wireless and DSL input.