jkOnTheRun debate- what do you want in a Mac netbook?
Kevin and I had one of our Skype chats this morning that quickly turned to a topic that we’ve both given a lot of thought. We both use netbooks and we both use Macs in our daily routine and the conversation quickly turned to what would we like to see Apple produce on the netbook front? It became apparent quickly that Kevin and I have different views on this subject and it sounded like a good idea to both give our views and then open this up for discussion with you the readers.
JK: I have a hard time envisioning an Apple netbook because of my own definition of what makes a netbook. We think of netbooks as small laptops but to me that’s not what makes a netbook a netbook. Small laptops are nothing new, they have been around for years, most of them produced in Asia. They have always been very expensive when compared to other laptops and I see the main difference between netbooks of today and those small notebooks is price. I feel that the low price point is what makes the netbook so popular. When I think of a Mac netbook I don’t see the low prices possible due to Apple’s price premium. So when I think of a Mac netbook, MacBook Mini if you will, I just can’t see Apple getting the price low enough to make the netbook grade.
This leads me to think about a small Mac notebook in general terms. If I put price aside for the moment how small would I like to see them go? Netbooks come in varying sizes, from 7-inch screens up to 10.2-inch screens. The trend seems to be moving to the high end of that spectrum today on the netbook front. Based on my intended usage of the little Mac notebook the smallest I’d be willing to go would be a 10-inch screen. The keyboard is very important to me in my writing work and my experience with notebooks with a screen smaller than 10 inches leaves me with a keyboard that I wouldn’t be happy with for extended use. A 10-inch screen device would be a nice small size for portability so I could live with that. To be honest though, if that would require compromising the keyboard then I’d be happier with an 11 or 12-inch screen. A MacBook Pro at that size would be the perfect notebook for me.
The discussion with Kevin also embraced processor speed. Would I be happy with an Atom-equipped Mac for daily use? I’m not sure. I think it would depend on a couple of things. If the Atom could run OS X well then I could probably live with it, if it would make for a much lower price point on the MacBook Mini. But I think that if this little MacBook would end up being as expensive as I think it would then I probably don’t want the Atom inside. A $800+ MacBook Mini, which is where I think such a device would start, is too much for me to settle for the reduced performance of the Atom. I’m going to be happier with a Centrino 2 inside for that kind of money.
Based on the above expectations how much would I spend for such a little MacBook? That’s a tough question. If it was going to cost me $1,000 or more then I’d more likely want a full MacBook Pro system in a smaller package. If Apple could get the price down near $600 then I’d be willing to settle for reduced performance and frills. I can’t see myself paying more than $800 for a notebook from anybody that has too many shortcuts, however. Once I start reaching that level of pricing I want a full-blown notebook, however small.
KCT: OK, this the last time I let you go first in a debate… I see you lifted my name of MacBook Mini! 
There’s no doubt that the term "netbook" means different things to different people. And I certainly agree that price is helping to define the netbook market. Unfortunately, Apple isn’t a company that offers a single product that is by far, the lowest priced when compared to its competitors. I’m willing to accept that due to the positive daily experience and that’s why I’d pay up to $800 for a Apple designed netbook. That would fit it nicely under the MacBook line that starts at $1,099 for a 13.3-inch notebook. It doesn’t have to be as thin as the MacBook Air, nor does it have to be as powerful as any other device in the MacBook line. At least not for me.
I’d be looking for either an 8.9- or 10-inch MacBook Mini that weighs in around two or two-and-a-half pounds. I already know that I can touch-type on a device with a 8.9-inch screen, but of course for me, it has to have a full-sized Right-Shift key. No cutting corners there… we’re already compromising on the overall keyboard size, so let’s not compromise further there. If the Acer Aspire One and MSI Wind can offer me that keyboard, an Apple MacBook Mini should be able to as well.
Speaking of the MSI Wind, let’s tie in performance. Although it’s a "no-no", some folks have installed Mac OS X on the Wind, which is running the 1.6 GHz Intel Atom. While that won’t compete with our Intel Core 2 Duo MacBook Pros, the evidence I’ve seen shows pretty peppy performance. At least enough to use the MacBook Mini for the majority of everyday tasks. I’ve already proven that I can just use a web-browser and no client apps for 60-days, so an Intel Atom MacBook Mini ought to work nicely. Putting anything else in under the hood would just be overkill for the use-cases of this device, while reducing battery life faster and causing heat issues. With the Atom, I think I can work all day on the web, but still have enough "oomph" for some lighter native and third-party apps.
Why wouldn’t I just get a five-pound MacBook for $1,099? Well, if I can get something smaller but nearly as usable that will run longer on a single charge and weigh 60% less, that’s worth $800 to me. Sure, I’d love to see an OS X netbook that’s comparable to the $299 to $599 netbooks, but history has told me not to hold my breath. Besides, the HP Mini-Note got a nice review and that device can run upwards of $829 when fully loaded, so is $800 too much to ask? Put another way: I was happy with Mac OS X on my UMPC with a 7-inch screen and that device cost me $1,300. Sign me up for a Mac netbook at $800 or less!
JK: Points well taken and thanks for the MacBook Mini name. 
What I hear us both saying is that price is important but not as important on Apple Mac devices as it is for other netbooks. That speaks volumes for the user experience we both get on our Macs, doesn’t it? What I’m also hearing is that you’d pay $800 for an Apple netbook (FruitBook, if you will). Me, I’m not happy paying that much for ANY netbook, not even a Mac. If the price point gets that high then I don’t want to compromise on any performance nor components. I’d rather have a full package at that high price. You’re right when you point out that some netbooks can run that high already, but I personally wouldn’t buy one. It starts getting into the area of giving up too much for the money to me.
KCT: I hate to admit that I’m willing to pay more for an Apple product, but obviously I am since I have in the past. While everyone’s experiences can vary, I have far less "downtime" with my MacBook Pro than I do with any of the other computers I currently or have previously owned. I won’t say they’re perfect, but they tend to offer me a more enjoyable and more stable experience. That in itself is worth a premium because my time is worth money.
But price isn’t the only factor here: in using ultra-mobile PCs for two-and-a-half years and netbooks since last October, I’ve come to find that the OS implementation is clearly a differentiator in this market. Custom Linux builds that offer the most functions a majority of folks will use is a start, but it’s not a proven model just yet. Add in the fact that we’re seeing so many different Linux interfaces and well… I’ll go with one that’s familiar to me and one that has a greater amount of third-party application support.
In the end, I could spend $800, or less even, and get a "full featured" notebook but it’s going to be heavier and be overkill for my mobile needs. At home or for heavy duty tasks, I’m good with my MacBook Pro. On the road, I don’t need a "full-figured" machine. I need a small, stable device that can do 90% of what my home computer can do. Or even 100% in a pinch.
Agree for Atom in the Mac DwarfBook !
Look movies here :
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jQt205r8tsg
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov2kJMTK62c
But for an electrochoc on this nearly saturated market, Apple need to provide a touch experience (and why not inking).
600 $ for a classic DwarfBook and 800 $ with Touch capabilities….
But if Apple isn’t ready for that, the “revolution” wil be a MacBook Air with Atom and 300 $ less. Again Thin different !
I agree with James about the price. Unless Apple releases a $500 model, it shouldn’t be called a netbook. However, if it was running a stripped down version of Mac OS X optimized for Internet, I’d reconsider.
I’d be more convinced if Apple were to take the netbook concept a step further and make Dashboard the OS. Dashboard is basically a front-end for the WebKit engine. Wouldn’t be hard to roll in a web browser and email app. Then you could use Dashboard as the main UI, switching to the regular (but still stripped down) OS X side for settings and whatnot. Hard to argue a notebook using a web rendering engine to drive its main interface is not a netbook.
Didn’t Apple already release a netbook called the Macbook Air? Seriously, I don’t think Apple has any plans to release any ultraportable that doesn’t cost less than $1500.
If they did release a netbook, I’d want it to have a netbook price (< $700), at least 2 USB ports, a HDD and a keyboard. Unfortunately, I think they'd release something like a jumbo iPod touch or something equally useless.
And yes, I know I should just by a Macbook if I want a cheap Apple laptop and that I shouldn’t ever question Apple’s prices or their profit margins.
I know that if I don’t like Apple’s current product line I don’t have to buy anything from them and that I’m not cool enough to understand the Apple aesthetic and that I’m probably jealous and just too poor to be able to afford Apple kit and that I should just stop whining and go back to my parent’s basement and stop eating cheetos because I am probably a fat loser with no girlfriend.
I think Apple are more likely to release an 7/8.9″ multi-touch tablet type device. I’d pay $600 for such as device. Add their nice Bluetooth external keyboard (as an $$ extra) and you get a netbook – especially if they can be clipped together.
Loosing the keyboard would save money (not a lot in volume) and also differentiate their product on the market.
Sort of a big screen color OS-X Newton.
I want it to be 1000 dollars cheaper than Apple is sure to sell it for.
Thanks for the laugh ben.
Next time you need to figure out where to work in the term “Winblowz”. I think that’s about the only thing you missed.
@Nate
I made the mistake of reading 12 pages of posts on Psystar’s countersuit in the MacRumors forum last night.
Thinking about this again, I am 100% sure that Apple won’t release a netbook. Why would anyone buy a Macbook Air for $1800 when you could get an Apple netbook (at the same weight, with the same performance, with the same OSX and maybe even more ports) for $1000 cheaper?
If Apple releases anything, it will be a Newton-like jumbo iPod Touch that will be declared “revolutionary”, will be difficult to type on and will leave out one or more major functions that most of us require.
I think Apple will most likely come out with a small tablet computer this fall. Why do I think this? Because I finally gave up waiting for one and bought an HP tx2500. That ensures that we’ll all see a Mac Tablet priced just out of the realm of reasonable this fall. Yep. *sigh*
@c.k.
I just ordered a tx2500z over the weekend. It’s hard to resist with the crazy stacked rebates and free RAM upgrades HP has going right now.
741.99 shipped for a screaming tablet that’s absolutely loaded. Un-freakin’-believable. I can’t wait to get my hands on this thing.
Do you have yours yet?
The only way I will ever have an Apple device is if I am given one for free.
Woadan
I have to admit that I’ve had a lot of trouble with the whole “netbook” category. When it was a 6″-7″ device with a simple linux OS it seemed easy to identify these notebook offspring, but once the screen size reached 10″ and started using a full blown OS, the line really got blury. The only differentiating factor that I still see is what JK pointed out in the first place: price. I have both an IdeaPad U110 and a TZ, both of which are 11″ screen devices. They are just as light and portable as the 10″ ‘Netbooks’ so what makes the netbook a netbook and the notebook a notebook? Of course the TZ and IdeaPad have Core2Duo processors as opposed to an Atom, but the only true difference I see is the ~$2,000 cost for one versus a ~$600 – $700 cost for the other. Netbook, Notebook, Laptop, UMPC, MID…these names have all lost meaning to me.
The answer is obvious: a MacBook Air, priced less. I have a SSD Air, and it’s a near perfect device for its purpose.
I just bought the Acer Aspire One for $350 with XP, 120GB HD & 1G ram. You can’t beat that. It replaced my 12″ Powerbook, which had served me well but could have soon become a repair issue. I am typing this on my Macbook Pro, and that is my first love. I wish Apple made a netbook, but even if they did I don’t see it reaching this price area. I mean, $350 at a retailer like Best Buy is a true deal if there ever was. Of course I cringe every time I hear the Windows song, but it’s so easy and convenient, who cares. I think Apple will eventually develop something similar, though not at that price. It’s just not in range of their economic reality.
@Jose and Fazal,
A “netbook” is pretty much a cheap ultraportable. While TZ’s and U110’s and Air’s are all probably great machines, they cost about 4 times what a well-built netbook does and don’t offer much more in performance, functionality, portability or battery life.
the Macbook air is Apple’s ‘netbook’ in terms of portability.
What apple may make is a 12″ macbook pro, which is hard to say given that they already have the macbook air. For even more portability, they’ll just stick with the ipod touch/iphone lines.
I am a Mac user who would like a smaller Mac.
The Air is thinner not smaller.
I own a 12″powerbook which like the newer Macbook pros has a separate graphics card.
Right now any person who uses computers a lot has to buy the 15″ Macbook pro if they want any performance.
The 13 inch Macbook is not small.
What is needed is the return on the 12″ in the Macbook pro form.
I see this product as an integration of the Macbook pro and the iphone in a 12″ form factor.
How long can Apple keep out of the mini computer market? It seems strange for them to be absent from a new segment of the computer market.
It is a long product jump from the iphone to the Macbook 13.