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	<title>Comments on: Windows Starter Edition on Netbooks Might Be Just Right</title>
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	<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/</link>
	<description>Using mobile devices since they weighed 30 lbs.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:14:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Baz</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-56010</link>
		<dc:creator>Baz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-56010</guid>
		<description>All of these discussions about Win7 (Starter or not) are presuming that what we&#039;ve seen / been promised so far in Beta show up in Gold. And with Win7 being, by Microsoft&#039;s own admission, not available until next year (and likely the stable SP1 fix another 6 months later), discussing its &#039;features&#039; seems pointless. See Vista.

Microsoft is an OS player in netbooks only because so many of these devices came with such a poorly realized and supported Linux distro and users felt it &quot;was better the devil they knew than the devil they didn&#039;t.&quot; XP is well past its sell-by date, but Microsoft is forced to keep it alive in order to sell anything at all.
 
But millions of netbooks running XP will be sold by the time Win7 shows up and by then the users of these devices will expect and demand that the OS they use be as fully functioning as what they can currently get - and not get a hobbled version of a troubled OS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of these discussions about Win7 (Starter or not) are presuming that what we&#8217;ve seen / been promised so far in Beta show up in Gold. And with Win7 being, by Microsoft&#8217;s own admission, not available until next year (and likely the stable SP1 fix another 6 months later), discussing its &#8216;features&#8217; seems pointless. See Vista.</p>
<p>Microsoft is an OS player in netbooks only because so many of these devices came with such a poorly realized and supported Linux distro and users felt it &#8220;was better the devil they knew than the devil they didn&#8217;t.&#8221; XP is well past its sell-by date, but Microsoft is forced to keep it alive in order to sell anything at all.</p>
<p>But millions of netbooks running XP will be sold by the time Win7 shows up and by then the users of these devices will expect and demand that the OS they use be as fully functioning as what they can currently get &#8211; and not get a hobbled version of a troubled OS.</p>
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		<title>By: Udo</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55969</link>
		<dc:creator>Udo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55969</guid>
		<description>The problem is, Starter Edition - already targeted for a market that doesn&#039;t require many of Windows&#039; strong points - is additionally crippled in a fashion that makes me wonder why people should even bother with it at all. When it comes to low-power, constrained equipment in  extensively pre-configured environments, Linux seems to be viable even for consumer devices. Specifically for people who are, as you said yourself, living in the browser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is, Starter Edition &#8211; already targeted for a market that doesn&#8217;t require many of Windows&#8217; strong points &#8211; is additionally crippled in a fashion that makes me wonder why people should even bother with it at all. When it comes to low-power, constrained equipment in  extensively pre-configured environments, Linux seems to be viable even for consumer devices. Specifically for people who are, as you said yourself, living in the browser.</p>
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		<title>By: Virtuous</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55960</link>
		<dc:creator>Virtuous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55960</guid>
		<description>If they&#039;re smart Linux distro companies will take advantage of this arbitrary limit to gain market share  in the netbook space. Apple should make a commercial about Starter Edition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they&#8217;re smart Linux distro companies will take advantage of this arbitrary limit to gain market share  in the netbook space. Apple should make a commercial about Starter Edition.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Bott</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55955</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Bott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55955</guid>
		<description>Kevin is correct. You can have as many instances of the Chrome.exe process as you like; collectively it counts as one program. The screen shot I show in my post shows a single Chrome icon, but there were actually six tabs open (and thus six Chrome.exe processes running).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin is correct. You can have as many instances of the Chrome.exe process as you like; collectively it counts as one program. The screen shot I show in my post shows a single Chrome icon, but there were actually six tabs open (and thus six Chrome.exe processes running).</p>
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		<title>By: GoodThings2Life</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55952</link>
		<dc:creator>GoodThings2Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55952</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

I read Ed&#039;s article yesterday, and I have to say that given the facts of how it interprets the 3-app count, it doesn&#039;t seem completely unreasonable... especially since you could buy it up front with Starter Edition and use the &quot;Anytime Upgrade&quot; feature to step-up to a more-advanced version later for what I suspect will be considerably less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>I read Ed&#8217;s article yesterday, and I have to say that given the facts of how it interprets the 3-app count, it doesn&#8217;t seem completely unreasonable&#8230; especially since you could buy it up front with Starter Edition and use the &#8220;Anytime Upgrade&#8221; feature to step-up to a more-advanced version later for what I suspect will be considerably less.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin C. Tofel</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55950</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin C. Tofel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55950</guid>
		<description>OK, let&#039;s try something not so idiotic. Vote with your wallet and don&#039;t buy Starter Edition. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, let&#8217;s try something not so idiotic. Vote with your wallet and don&#8217;t buy Starter Edition. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kevin C. Tofel</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55948</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin C. Tofel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55948</guid>
		<description>David, I&#039;ve owned and used netbooks every day since November of 2007 when the Eee PC first arrived on the scene. Never have I said they&#039;re only suitable for light tasks. And since the days of the UMPC, I&#039;ve always pushed the limit of my devices. The gist of what I said in the post is that *if* you plan to use a netbook for light tasks, the Starter Edition could work for you and offer some cost savings. Folks that want to do more than light tasks should use the right tool for the job and *not* buy Starter Edition.

Having said that, I understand your points on the business model. The problem is that Microsoft painted themselves in a corner with XP &amp; the netbook craze; they&#039;re now trying to find the most suitable business model that continues their cash stream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I&#8217;ve owned and used netbooks every day since November of 2007 when the Eee PC first arrived on the scene. Never have I said they&#8217;re only suitable for light tasks. And since the days of the UMPC, I&#8217;ve always pushed the limit of my devices. The gist of what I said in the post is that *if* you plan to use a netbook for light tasks, the Starter Edition could work for you and offer some cost savings. Folks that want to do more than light tasks should use the right tool for the job and *not* buy Starter Edition.</p>
<p>Having said that, I understand your points on the business model. The problem is that Microsoft painted themselves in a corner with XP &#038; the netbook craze; they&#8217;re now trying to find the most suitable business model that continues their cash stream.</p>
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		<title>By: c1oudrs</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55945</link>
		<dc:creator>c1oudrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55945</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think its idiotic at all.  Thanks for the post.  I think Kevin has some valid points.  If nothing else its good to hear that its easy to upgrade windows mobile 7 and for that alone the post was worth reading.  The real question is going to be price as I do agree that the starter I don&#039;t think will be for me though I could be wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think its idiotic at all.  Thanks for the post.  I think Kevin has some valid points.  If nothing else its good to hear that its easy to upgrade windows mobile 7 and for that alone the post was worth reading.  The real question is going to be price as I do agree that the starter I don&#8217;t think will be for me though I could be wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: David Cohen</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55944</link>
		<dc:creator>David Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55944</guid>
		<description>Kevin, why subscribe to this artificial line that netbooks are only suitable for light tasks? They are more powerful than the full price laptops we were buying a few years ago! Their compromises come from form factor, not a lack of horsepower.

Fact is, Microsoft, Intel and other are terrified the Netbook will drive sales away from more expensive hardware, and so have been talking down the netbook as a real computer. However, instead of dealing with it by stepping up to the plate and delivering good value and an experience people are prepared to pay a premium for, they try and throttle the very bottom end of the market by putting artificial limits in. It&#039;s akin to a mafia racket. And you can bet that the app limit will not be advertised in bold letters on the hardware&#039;s box, but hidden away in the small print.

It will, of course, backfire. No-one will understand the limit, and they&#039;ll blame Microsoft for their frustrations - which will drive adoption of other solutions. Such a shame, because I know from the beta that Windows 7 Ultimate runs REALLY well on a netbook, and could really turn their fortunes around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, why subscribe to this artificial line that netbooks are only suitable for light tasks? They are more powerful than the full price laptops we were buying a few years ago! Their compromises come from form factor, not a lack of horsepower.</p>
<p>Fact is, Microsoft, Intel and other are terrified the Netbook will drive sales away from more expensive hardware, and so have been talking down the netbook as a real computer. However, instead of dealing with it by stepping up to the plate and delivering good value and an experience people are prepared to pay a premium for, they try and throttle the very bottom end of the market by putting artificial limits in. It&#8217;s akin to a mafia racket. And you can bet that the app limit will not be advertised in bold letters on the hardware&#8217;s box, but hidden away in the small print.</p>
<p>It will, of course, backfire. No-one will understand the limit, and they&#8217;ll blame Microsoft for their frustrations &#8211; which will drive adoption of other solutions. Such a shame, because I know from the beta that Windows 7 Ultimate runs REALLY well on a netbook, and could really turn their fortunes around.</p>
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		<title>By: Tery</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55943</link>
		<dc:creator>Tery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 21:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55943</guid>
		<description>What an idiotic post.  Trying to defend the 3 limit app that you can&#039;t even explain yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an idiotic post.  Trying to defend the 3 limit app that you can&#8217;t even explain yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55936</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55936</guid>
		<description>I think the 3 app limit is going to prove to be far too confusing in practice.  If Windows apps don&#039;t count and services don&#039;t count you&#039;ll find a lot of people wondering which apps they need to close to drop below the limit.

Also, I think Vista Home Basic proved that people generally aren&#039;t interested in Microsoft&#039;s reasons for imposing limitations (even if it means the cost of the OS drops) and just expect to be able to do everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the 3 app limit is going to prove to be far too confusing in practice.  If Windows apps don&#8217;t count and services don&#8217;t count you&#8217;ll find a lot of people wondering which apps they need to close to drop below the limit.</p>
<p>Also, I think Vista Home Basic proved that people generally aren&#8217;t interested in Microsoft&#8217;s reasons for imposing limitations (even if it means the cost of the OS drops) and just expect to be able to do everything.</p>
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		<title>By: gmazin</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55927</link>
		<dc:creator>gmazin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55927</guid>
		<description>It will probably violate the EULA... which probably means they could do a variety of things to the OS.

Anyway if you&#039;re smart enough to apply a hack you&#039;re smart enough to install a pirated W7 Ultimate.

Either way this is probably great news to Intel who keeps insisting that netbooks can&#039;t do anything except the surf the net.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will probably violate the EULA&#8230; which probably means they could do a variety of things to the OS.</p>
<p>Anyway if you&#8217;re smart enough to apply a hack you&#8217;re smart enough to install a pirated W7 Ultimate.</p>
<p>Either way this is probably great news to Intel who keeps insisting that netbooks can&#8217;t do anything except the surf the net.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin C. Tofel</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55921</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin C. Tofel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55921</guid>
		<description>Based on how I read Ed&#039;s testing, Chrome with multiple tabs would only count as one application. I&#039;m not able to test this as I have no access to the Starter Edition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on how I read Ed&#8217;s testing, Chrome with multiple tabs would only count as one application. I&#8217;m not able to test this as I have no access to the Starter Edition.</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Jones</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55920</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55920</guid>
		<description>Does Internet Explorer count as one of the three apps? I seem to recall a legal dispute a few years ago in which MS claimed that IE was an integral part of the Windows operating system, and not a separate application. I would expect them to abide by that, although I think MS lost the case, and rightly so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does Internet Explorer count as one of the three apps? I seem to recall a legal dispute a few years ago in which MS claimed that IE was an integral part of the Windows operating system, and not a separate application. I would expect them to abide by that, although I think MS lost the case, and rightly so.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55919</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55919</guid>
		<description>Have you tested this with Chrome?  
The application shows as a single task, but each tab is it&#039;s own process.  I&#039;m wondering which one counts...  I would assume the task, but I have not tested this.

On my tablet [TC1100] I rarely have more than the browser open, so I can see this being acceptable as long as services are not counted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you tested this with Chrome?<br />
The application shows as a single task, but each tab is it&#8217;s own process.  I&#8217;m wondering which one counts&#8230;  I would assume the task, but I have not tested this.</p>
<p>On my tablet [TC1100] I rarely have more than the browser open, so I can see this being acceptable as long as services are not counted.</p>
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		<title>By: Martini</title>
		<link>http://jkontherun.com/2009/04/21/windows-starter-edition-on-netbooks-might-be-just-right/#comment-55918</link>
		<dc:creator>Martini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jkontherun.com/?p=34255#comment-55918</guid>
		<description>Starter edition is really stupid.  The people buying netbooks are trying to get a low cost laptop to do the basics.  These same users are also less likely to understand this arbitrary limitation either before or after purchase.

Furthermore, power users are likely to balk at this idea even more.

Also, the point of a netbook is to have a smaller more portable notebook and make some performance compromises, but to have the full desktop potential.  This arbitrary limit goes against that idea.  Yes, you don&#039;t get flashy graphics, but you still can run all your apps.

My guess is that this will show up on $300-400 netbooks and the upgrade fee will be $100-200.  That cheap netbook you just bought is now quite a bit more expensive not including virus and malware protection (if you don&#039;t go the free route).

To be honest, this would be a gift to apple.  If this shows up on $400 netbooks (assuming a $200 upgrade fee), you can be almost sure Apple will release a $700-800 &quot;netbook&quot; with full blown iLife and OSX.  Apple can&#039;t compete at $400, but if MS does this, Apple will have commercials saying for the same price why compromise?

This probably also points to the fact that the netbook market is probably not sustainable with razor thin profit margins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Starter edition is really stupid.  The people buying netbooks are trying to get a low cost laptop to do the basics.  These same users are also less likely to understand this arbitrary limitation either before or after purchase.</p>
<p>Furthermore, power users are likely to balk at this idea even more.</p>
<p>Also, the point of a netbook is to have a smaller more portable notebook and make some performance compromises, but to have the full desktop potential.  This arbitrary limit goes against that idea.  Yes, you don&#8217;t get flashy graphics, but you still can run all your apps.</p>
<p>My guess is that this will show up on $300-400 netbooks and the upgrade fee will be $100-200.  That cheap netbook you just bought is now quite a bit more expensive not including virus and malware protection (if you don&#8217;t go the free route).</p>
<p>To be honest, this would be a gift to apple.  If this shows up on $400 netbooks (assuming a $200 upgrade fee), you can be almost sure Apple will release a $700-800 &#8220;netbook&#8221; with full blown iLife and OSX.  Apple can&#8217;t compete at $400, but if MS does this, Apple will have commercials saying for the same price why compromise?</p>
<p>This probably also points to the fact that the netbook market is probably not sustainable with razor thin profit margins.</p>
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